C l u t c H 385
Banned
Grown Ups. Don't you dare blaspheme the Sand Man.
The End of INCEPTION *spoilers*
- Thread starter larryselbows
- Start date
Grown Ups. Don't you dare blaspheme the Sand Man.
JJ Rage
Active Member
- The strongest argument I've heard that he's awake is that he saw his kids' faces at the end.
- The strongest argument I've heard that he's dreaming is that Saito was the only one who knew what Dom's totem felt like, and thus was able to manipulate it.
I think the real purpose of the ending, is to show that Dom got what he wanted. He was able to forget Mal and be at home with his kids, which is why he walked away from the totem for the first time. HE didn't CARE if he was awake or dreaming anymore. He finally got what he wanted all along.
- The strongest argument I've heard that he's dreaming is that Saito was the only one who knew what Dom's totem felt like, and thus was able to manipulate it.
I think the real purpose of the ending, is to show that Dom got what he wanted. He was able to forget Mal and be at home with his kids, which is why he walked away from the totem for the first time. HE didn't CARE if he was awake or dreaming anymore. He finally got what he wanted all along.
larryselbows
Banned
well put
Sloanfield
New Member
how about the fact that his kids didnt seem to age at all, after he had supposedly been running away from giant multinational corporations trying to kill him. young kids grow fast man.
C l u t c H 385
Banned
I just liked the shooting and fighting.
You guys are all ****.
You guys are all ****.
I don't believe he had been running for more than a year
Sloanfield
New Member
well it doesnt matter about the top spinning or not because it wasnt cobbs totem, it was mol's
DutchJazzer
Banned
ooh really?
2 actors played each of the children.
so that there was an age difference.
maybe you jsut didnt notice
Sloanfield
New Member
oh i guess im wrong about that then
anyway i dont treally think he was dreamin im jus trollin
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
So you're admitting a warning or infraction should be coming?
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Saw it again today. Liked the movie more the second time.
A comment which I see as fundamental, logistical flaw if I'm understanding everything correctly. This bothers me a little.
In the final, hour long "triple dream," the truck hitting the water is their kick to come back to their conscious state. Reality. In the movie, once it hits, they wake up and swim to shore. Leo and Watanabe do not because they're now in the 4th dream. That said, once it did hit the water and the others woke up in their conscious state on the plane, how does Cillian Murphy not say, "Hey, what the **** are these wires attached to me?" Or "hey, what the **** are these wires attached to Watanabe and DiCaprio" who would not have woken up at the same instance the others did but maybe a little later. If I remember correctly, every dream "workshop" they ran through shows them waking up via their kick (or getting killed in the dream) with the wires still attached to them. No? Yes, the compound/drug is what puts them under, but those wires are then attached.
A comment which I see as fundamental, logistical flaw if I'm understanding everything correctly. This bothers me a little.
In the final, hour long "triple dream," the truck hitting the water is their kick to come back to their conscious state. Reality. In the movie, once it hits, they wake up and swim to shore. Leo and Watanabe do not because they're now in the 4th dream. That said, once it did hit the water and the others woke up in their conscious state on the plane, how does Cillian Murphy not say, "Hey, what the **** are these wires attached to me?" Or "hey, what the **** are these wires attached to Watanabe and DiCaprio" who would not have woken up at the same instance the others did but maybe a little later. If I remember correctly, every dream "workshop" they ran through shows them waking up via their kick (or getting killed in the dream) with the wires still attached to them. No? Yes, the compound/drug is what puts them under, but those wires are then attached.
JJ Rage
Active Member
The truck hitting the water is not their kick to wake up on the plane, it's their kick to wake up from the hotel. Each kick is designed to wake them up in that specific dream state. Essentially, they had to wake up in each dream level before they could wake up in the one before it. Being dropped in the van isn't supposed to wake them up on the plane. The shared dreaming device on the plane was set on a timer. But once the device is removed/turned off, the subject can still remain asleep. If you remember when they had Saito connected to it on the train, they removed the wires and got off the train, but Saito remained sleeping.
So why didn't Fischer complain about the wires? Because they'd likely already been removed. As far as Fischer not noticing any wires on Saito and Cobb, if I recall, they explained that limbo was essentially a permanent dream state, and being trapped there wasn't really affected by the shared dreaming device.
One set of actors played his children in the backyard - shown throughout the film as well as the final scene. The other set of actors were his children during the scene on the beach when he got out of the elevator. From what I remember.
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The movie is great because so many different thoeries can work - it's really open to personal interpretation. It's true art. Here is an interesting take: https://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html
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Gyp Rosetti
Banned
I'm going to see it a third time today because my father wants to see it. That said, I think you're flat out wrong with your first statement. The first dream was the "rain sequence" and once the van crashes into the water (the kick), they wake up to reality in their conscious state on the plane. This I'm pretty certain about.
Regarding the timer, I'll have to pay closer attention and see if you're right since this is really the most crucial piece of info.
JJ Rage
Active Member
With the timer, I'm not certain if it's an automated thing or not, but remember on both the plane and the train, there was someone who never went into the dream world monitoring the dreamers and the sharing device - the flight attendant and the teenage boy on the train. So they didn't need a kick to wake up in the "real world" because they had these handlers there to wake them up/monitor how much time they had left. HOWEVER, I know for a fact that there was a timer during their tests when Ariadne was first learning the ropes. In fact, this is when they first explain the relation between dream time and real time. Arthur says "5 more minutes", Ariadne responds by saying something to the effect of "5 minutes? We were in there for at least an hour!" This is when Cobb and Arthur explain that "5 minutes of real time is an hour in a dream". When Cobb and Ariadne go back in, an Ariadne's meddling causes Mal to appear and stab her in the dream, she yells at Arthur, asking why he didn't wake her up. His response is "there was still time left".
In terms of the kicks, recall the opening dream sequence. Cobb had to be dunked in the tub to woken from the dream he was in, but he didn't wake up on the train when he hit the water, he woke up in the apartment. You wake up in the same level that the kick is performed. If what you're saying (or what I think you're saying) is correct, then the tub kick from the beginning of the film would've caused Cobb to wake up on the train, not in the apartment. The elevator drop woke them up in the elevator, the van kick woke them up in the van, and then the timer/handler is what wakes them up in the real world.
So once the van hits the water, they wake up in the van. At that point, they're free to swim to shore or whatever in that dream until the timer goes off/handler wakes them up in the real world.
...I think.
I'm definitely going to see it a third time as well very shortly, because I'm starting to confuse myself.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Gotcha. Sorry to confuse you and I think you're right. However, is the flight attendant the only handler or is their one at each level? The flight attendant is in reality. Then the "pharmacist" in the rain sequence? JGL in the Hotel room? Who in the snow sequence? The "forger"?
Or is it just the flight attendant?
Also, the acting is great in the movie. No one's a weak link. Page is nothing special but she plays her role well. Cillian Murphy who usually annoys me (except in 28 Days Later which is amazing) was superb I thought. The final scene between him and his dad was powerful as hell. It reminded me of Citizen Kane. I loved the end as everything builds to that point as well as DiCaprio and Moll. I loved the opening scene when Watanabe pulls out the gun as he feigns sleeping and DiCaprio then hits the tub in slo-mo. Hell, the opening shot of the ocean crashing in is maybe thee most gorgeous shot in the whole movie. Just stunning. Perfect light/time of day to be shot, camera angle, etc. It will obviously be up for Best Picture now that 10 are nominated and I would think has a solid chance to win. Although, I see The Social network becoming a major player in that regard.
JJ Rage
Active Member
Yusuf (pharmacist/chemist) would be the handler in the rain/van level, and Arthur (JGL) is the handler in the hotel. The snow level doesn't really have a handler, per se, as they didn't really plan on going into a 4th level/Cobb's limbo, and didn't really plan for a kick here. The closest thing to a handler here would be Eames the forger, but again he only takes on this role to be a failsafe should he need to "kick" the other 4 (Cobb, Saito, Fischer and Ariadne) out of limbo, hence the charges he places on the base (this is my assumption as to why he places the charges, anyway). As it was, Ariadne and Fischer were "kicked" out of limbo when they fell from the building, thus waking up back in the snow level, which is when Fischer opened the locked door and interacted with his father. Right after that, the hotel kick occurs, which pulls Ariadne, Fischer and Eames out of the snow level, but leaves Saito and Cobb behind as they didn't not receive a kick in Limbo and were thus trapped there. Then the van/water kick hits, pulling Ariadne, Fischer, Eames and Arthur out of the hotel level. When they level the van/rain level is anyone's guess, since we don't see the timer/handler that causes them to leave. We're left to assume they wake up in due time, as the action shifts back to Cobb in limbo.
Also, as I'm typing this, I'm remembering that Arthur and Eames both received musical countdowns. Arthur is seen placing headphones on Eames as he sleep in the hotel, and Yusuf does the same to Arthur while they're in the van. I believe these were simply designed as a way for the dreamers to know how much time they had left, but it may have also been a form of a kick.
Damn I really need to see this movie again.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Okay so I saw it again today and if I'm not mistaken, there's only one scene where the timer goes off and we see the person wake up in reality and that's on the train. Right away, we see JGL rip off the thing attached to his hand or arm. This seems as if would contradict your notion that these contraptions were pulled prior to the subjects waking up. Likewise, in scenes with Ellen Page and Leo where they're awakened prior to the five minutes being up or in other scenes, when they're awakened via "death", they too have the wires attached then. So?
Again, maybe I'm missing something but...
Again, maybe I'm missing something but...
Stickler
Well-Known Member
It is pretty clear to me that Cobb is dreaming, at the end. The cut that occurs to move him and Michael Caine from the airport to the house is the same kind of cut that occurs in the dream sequences; a jump of space and time with no transition between. Caine takes his bag and says, "this way," and they take a few steps forward and they're in the house. Cobb looks over his shoulder with a confused look on his face, like, "How did we get here? Where did the airport go?" He then immediately takes out the top and spins it to test if it's a dream.
The top doesn't fall. He's clearly still dreaming.
I might re-watch the movie to see if I can catch the clues that will tell me where he got caught in the dream world. I'll be disappointed if it's no more complex than: He never came out of limbo.
The top doesn't fall. He's clearly still dreaming.
I might re-watch the movie to see if I can catch the clues that will tell me where he got caught in the dream world. I'll be disappointed if it's no more complex than: He never came out of limbo.