The Honesty of Transgender Identity

[Zombie]

I am talking about prof. Peterson. He was threatened by university to start using them when addressing students who identify with whatever they want.

He was ASKED to use transgender friendly pronouns when addressing his trangendered students. My bosses make me use certain terminology with customers, even when I think it sounds awkward, and I'd hardly accuse them of encroaching on my free speech.

 

[One Brow]

Not yet. But the talk about Jordan Peterson is really about actual laws compelling speech.

Could you name and quote the law, please? What are the penalties that would apply for using incorrect pronouns?

If you are referring to Bill C-16, it does not have such an effect.

http://sds.utoronto.ca/blog/bill-c-16-no-its-not-about-criminalizing-pronoun-misuse/

Some fear that what's happening in Canada could happen here.

Some fear the abominable snowman attacking their children at night. In the US, we have the First Amendment.

 

[MVP]

I am calling her a her. Jordan Peterson seems very womanly to me. Is there a reason I should not refer to her using feminine pronouns?

Well, it does not mater how he appears to you. The fact is that he is a man. If you trying to tell me that same situation applies to so called gender neutral, well I am disagreeing.

 

[MVP]

He was ASKED to use transgender friendly pronouns when addressing his trangendered students.

And he said it is fine, I will use whatever they associate to - male or female. He refused to use made up words like zhe or zher.

 

[MVP]

. My bosses make me use certain terminology with customers, even when I think it sounds awkward,

Can you provide examples of that terminology?

 

[Siro]

Born females are biologically born females with female parts. Trans females are biologically born males with male parts.
(I'm not including inner sex.)

Do you think what I'm saying is far off or discrimination?

Ya, but that's more of a psychological reaction based on cultural norms. If you didn't know about the sex change, the only major difference would be the inability to have children, which is present in some born females.

I understand why some would see it as discrimination.

 

[fairweather]

He was ASKED to use transgender friendly pronouns when addressing his trangendered students. My bosses make me use certain terminology with customers, even when I think it sounds awkward, and I'd hardly accuse them of encroaching on my free speech.

No, he was responding to actual legislation. Bill C-16.

Note that I haven't read the bill and some claim he's mischaracterizing it, but that's how it all started.

 

[Archie Moses]

I am talking about prof. Peterson. He was threatened by university to start using them when addressing students who identify with whatever they want.

Like I've said in this thread before, I call people by what they want to be called. However, I don't believe Peterson should be fired and laws should be made to force someone to call someone by the pronouns they choose because their beliefs are validated too.

[]

Ben Shapiro doesn't call transgender people by their pronouns (one thing I disagree with him on - even Steven Crowder respects trans enough to call them by their pronouns) and now is worried the left will ban him from Facebook, YouTube, etc because Alex Jones just did. Although Shapiro is nothing like Jones, but the progressive left doesn't care. They make their own rules, standards, labels.

 

[Siro]

My grandma told a story about how she took her kids to China Town in SF and told them they must use chopsticks. Then, the kids looked around the room and pointed out that most of the Chinese people were using forks.

You can't even get your clothes splattered properly if you're using a fork. smh.

 

[Siro]

Like I've said in this thread before, I call people by what they want to be called. However, I don't believe Peterson should be fired and laws should be made to force someone to call someone by the pronouns they choose because their beliefs are validated too.



Ben Shapiro doesn't call transgender people by their pronouns (one thing I disagree with him on - even Steven Crowder respects trans enough to call them by their pronouns) and now is worried the left will ban him from Facebook, YouTube, etc because Alex Jones just did. Although Shapiro is nothing like Jones, but the progressive left doesn't care. They make their own rules, standards, labels.

Alex Jones is a dangerous lunatic whose raison d'etre is harassing people in truly despicable ways. He should be in jail.

 

[One Brow]

I can't help but think of how ignorant you are and how to translate one thing into meaning absolute statements.

Absolute statements are to be generally avoided, I agree.

1. Sure, dating is a cultural activity, but it's also a biological activity. Some people want relationships where they can have kids. We see this in the animal kingdom as well, but the difference between humans and animals goes beyond just the desire to have sex.

Coitus is biological, marriage or other long-term relationships are cultural.

2. Joe Rogan has many people on his show with many different backgrounds. He's not a political podcaster - he just engages conversations with a vast arrange of guests. Sometimes his opinions align with his guests, sometimes they don't e.g. Steven Crowder.

Steven Crowder is another conservative commentator. I don't feel like debating the range of guests on Rogan, just pointing out that so far, you have pointed out a conservative podcaster and two socially conservative guests for the "vast arrange".

Again, I suggested the video because I like Joe Rogan and I thought the podcast with Dr Soh was interesting.

Why? What part of it was interesting?

3. The whole notion where you state it's discrimination if a heterosexual won't date a transgender is absurd to me - especially when you defend racial discrimination.

What "unjust or prejudicial treatment" do I defend?

Discrimination: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Argument by definition, how fun!

dis·crim·i·nate
/dəˈskriməˌnāt/
verb

• 1.recognize a distinction; differentiate:

dis·crim·i·na·tion
/dəˌskriməˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun

• 2.recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another:

Your butterscotch/caramel example is silly and a stretch.

You don't understand the difference between caramel and butterscotch?

It's not discrimination and I'll tell you why. Gender is different than sex. Heterosexuals (for the most part, not an absolute) are interested in the opposite sex because of biological reasons. Transgender females are different than females naturally born females. This is not to say there's something wrong with transgenders in the slightest, it's just saying they're different. There is no prejudice in not being interested in this type of dating. There's nothing unjust about it

You recognized a difference and used it to differentiate between cis-gendered females and trans-gendered females. That's the primary definition of "discriminate".

 

[MVP]

Jeez. Learn how to use chopsticks.

But why? Fork is much more efficient.

 

[Siro]

But why? Fork is much more efficient.

Chop sticks look way cooler tho.

 

[MVP]

Is there a reason I should not refer to her using feminine pronouns?

How about an onbvious fact that he is a man.

 

[One Brow]

Isn't that what is happening with trying to create new pronouns? Ze or shim or some of the others I have heard.

If usage becomes settled enough that "ze", "xe", and "shim" refers to specific, well-understood genders I will make an effort to adopt them when appropriate. When looking for a gender-free pronoun for a person, I will continue to use the singular "they".

 

[MVP]

Chop sticks look way cooler tho.

In Ethiopian restaurant we were told to use hands for eating. But only pick up food with right hand as left is for personal hygiene. Now that was cool eating!

 

[Siro]

If usage becomes settled enough that "ze", "xe", and "shim" refers to specific, well-understood genders I will make an effort to adopt them when appropriate. When looking for a gender-free pronoun for a person, I will continue to use the singular "they".

'They' sucks. Too bad we're stuck with it.

 

[One Brow]

Or is it a reflection of society? It seems to me they likely came about naturally and it is unlikely it was created by some oligarchy and then forced into society to change it.

Oppressive social structures often come about without prior social planning by an oligarchy.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

con·no·ta·tion
ˌkänəˈtāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: connotation; plural noun: connotations
an idea or feeling that a word invokes in addition to its literal or primary meaning.
"the word “discipline” has unhappy connotations of punishment and repression"


Lol this thread.

 

[Archie Moses]

Ya, but that's more of a psychological reaction based on cultural norms. If you didn't know about the sex change, the only major difference would be the inability to have children, which is present in some born females.

I understand why some would see it as discrimination.

Even with a sex change, I feel (in my experience) most transgender people are easy to identify because of their physical appearance often times has biological masculine or feminine traits. There are some that don't, but I still feel they should let people know they are trans.

I once went on a date with a trans. I met her online and she doctored her pictures to eliminate her masculine traits. When I picked her up, I immediately knew she was trans and it was very uncomfortable for me. I didn't want to be politically incorrect or make her feel bad - I know they have it hard and lots of struggles. But ultimately I was not interested in dating a trans and she hid that from me.

The story is longer, but basically I ended the date in the best way I knew at the time and I was respectful and understanding. It was incredibly awkward and she got upset and slammed my car door. I feel I handled the situation better than what I'd imagine most would. One Brow can call this discrimination all he wants.