The horror of drafting in the 6-10 range

[green]

There are 0 Certain stars is this draft. I stopped reading when I got to there.

Huh. When everyone has universally said that there is a franchise changer in this draft, the first since LeBron (which ironically, was the last time a player was available that could help a team win a title), and every smart team (LA, Boston) is tanking to get that player...I'll listen to them over you, no offense. And then I'll tank.

 

[gregbroncs]

Huh. When everyone has universally said that there is a franchise changer in this draft, the first since LeBron (which ironically, was the last time a player was available that could help a team win a title), and every smart team (LA, Boston) is tanking to get that player...I'll listen to them over you, no offense. And then I'll tank.

Oden was a certain star, So were tons of other top 5 picks that have turned out to be busts. Hell we have one on our team that was a certain star (Marvin Williams). Ironically Wiggins reminds me a lot of Marvin in college. There will be stars to come out of this draft but none of them are certain. And more likely than not one of the 3 certain stars is going to be a bust.

 

[fishonjazz]

There are 0 Certain stars is this draft. I stopped reading when I got to there.

Wonder why so many teams are tanking then

 

[fishonjazz]

Oden was a certain star, So were tons of other top 5 picks that have turned out to be busts. Hell we have one on our team that was a certain star (Marvin Williams). Ironically Wiggins reminds me a lot of Marvin in college. There will be stars to come out of this draft but none of them are certain. And more likely than not one of the 3 certain stars is going to be a bust.

Marvin and oden were not certain stars and no one was tanking for them either. Sorry to burst your bubble

 

[Revolution 9]

There won't be 5 stars in the top 5. 3 if things go well.

There will be someone who will be a huge help/star to our team after the top 5. DL if you want to atone for your sins you will find him.

 

[UGLI baby]

Marvin and oden were not certain stars and no one was tanking for them either. Sorry to burst your bubble

Ummm.

Oden was one of the most hyped players of ALL TIME during high school, his freshman year at Ohio St, and heading into the draft. Was supposed to be the next great big man, and a lock for the Hall of Fame. Was more hyped than any player in this draft. Wiggins could've equaled Oden's hype, but his hype has sort of fizzled.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ummm.

Oden was one of the most hyped players of ALL TIME during high school, his freshman year at Ohio St, and heading into the draft. Was supposed to be the next great big man, and a lock for the Hall of Fame. Was more hyped than any player in this draft. Wiggins could've equaled Oden's hype, but his hype has sort of fizzled.

Maybe you are right but i dont remember him being that hyped.

Also dont remember hearing alot of talk about a bunch of teams tanking for him but maybe they were and just didnt notice because the jazz were not involved

 

[UGLI baby]

Maybe you are right but i dont remember him being that hyped.

Also dont remember hearing alot of talk about a bunch of teams tanking for him but maybe they were and just didnt notice because the jazz were not involved

There were others for sure, but Boston tanked like no other down the stretch. Had a losing streak similar to the Sixers current streak at one point. Bill Simmons has written several articles based on it.

Oden was for sure for sure one of the most hyped players in the last 20 years. Off the top of my head I'd say most hyped outside of LeBron.

 

[fishonjazz]

There were others for sure, but Boston tanked like no other down the stretch. Had a losing streak similar to the Sixers current streak at one point. Bill Simmons has written several articles based on it.

Oden was for sure for sure one of the most hyped players in the last 20 years. Off the top of my head I'd say most hyped outside of LeBron.

Huh
Well i'll be damned

 

[UGLI baby]

There were others for sure, but Boston tanked like no other down the stretch. Had a losing streak similar to the Sixers current streak at one point. Bill Simmons has written several articles based on it.

Oden was for sure for sure one of the most hyped players in the last 20 years. Off the top of my head I'd say most hyped outside of LeBron.

Looking at it, I would say since 1990 only Shaq, Duncan, and LeBron were more hyped. Anthony Davis was close, but not as hyped as Oden because Davis kinda bursted onto the scene with his growth spurt while Oden was hyped for years and years before he even entered college.

 

[fishonjazz]

Even with oden..... i think that injuries and lack of desire have more to do with him not working out.

If oden doesnt get hurt and has a better work ethic then he probably would be worth tanking for.

He put up 17 and 10 with 3.3 blocks as a freshman playing in the big ten.
I would want to tank for that. Sometimes you swing and miss though.
I just dont think that winning 5-10 extra games, in the name of pride, so that you get a 7th pick instead 3rd pick really does you any good

 

[cowhide]

Yup. Since 1990, if you don't have Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, LeBron, Kobe or Duncan, you aren't winning a title. Crazy. 4 of those 6 were #1 picks. One was a #3, and one was the first HS ever taken (i.e., if that draft was redone today, not knowing their futures, Kobe would go #1, Iverson #2).

That means that 5 of the 6 were #1 picks, and the only other one (Jordan) was taken behind one of those #1 picks.

It is literally impossible to win a title in the NBA. The sad thing is, only SA was smart enough to realize that and do everything they could to get Duncan.


It's why so many teams are tanking this year. There is another one of "those" players in this draft. LA, Boston, Philly all realize that the only way to win a title is to get that guy. The next shot NBA teams will have at adding a player who can win a title after this year is 2017 (excluding whoever gets LeBron).

Sad.

If I recall SA got lucky with the coin toss with Boston. So it isn't just about tanking but getting lucky. I hope my mind isn't playing tricks on me but that is how I remember it.

In this draft there are no sure superstars. Teams make decisions and sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't just ask Portland. Wiggins and Parker have the potential but they aren't Lebron.

 

[fishonjazz]

Marvin and oden were not certain stars and no one was tanking for them either. Sorry to burst your bubble

I guess i was wrong about oden.

Was marvin a guaranteed certain star? I dont think he even started for his college team iirc

 

[fishonjazz]

If I recall SA got lucky with the coin toss with Boston. So it isn't just about tanking but getting lucky. I hope my mind isn't playing tricks on me but that is how I remember it.

In this draft there are no sure superstars. Teams make decisions and sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't just ask Portland. Wiggins and Parker have the potential but they aren't Lebron.

Do you have a point though?

Are you trying to say that the jazz should win as much as possible so that they end up in 7-10 range instead of losing a few winnable games and getting into the 3-6 range?

 

[cowhide]

Even with oden..... i think that injuries and lack of desire have more to do with him not working out.

If oden doesnt get hurt and has a better work ethic then he probably would be worth tanking for.

He put up 17 and 10 with 3.3 blocks as a freshman playing in the big ten.
I would want to tank for that. Sometimes you swing and miss though.
I just dont think that winning 5-10 extra games, in the name of pride, so that you get a 7th pick instead 3rd pick really does you any good

I never heard anything about Oden's work ethic. Considering how hard he has had to work to just play again tells me that a lack of work ethic had nothing to do with his lack of success. I would NEVER had drafted Oden once I saw the medical report on his knees. He had been injured in college already and the doctor's were talking like he had the knees of a 50 year old before the draft. However, Portland didn't learn from history and went with size instead of picking Durrant. How would you feel about your franchise if they were known to have missed out on picking MJ and KD because they didn't see the warning signs of injury.

To me when a big guy has problems with his leg it automatically is a red flag for me.

 

[green]

Ummm.

Oden was one of the most hyped players of ALL TIME during high school, his freshman year at Ohio St, and heading into the draft. Was supposed to be the next great big man, and a lock for the Hall of Fame. Was more hyped than any player in this draft. Wiggins could've equaled Oden's hype, but his hype has sort of fizzled.

I remember this. The crazy thing was, I wrote on this site over and over again, how someone with Oden's size, really wasn't that special. He was very big for college and HS. But, in the NBA, he was average in size. He was over-hyped for some reason.

 

[cowhide]

Do you have a point though?

Are you trying to say that the jazz should win as much as possible so that they end up in 7-10 range instead of losing a few winnable games and getting into the 3-6 range?

My point was that saying SA did everything possible and it worked out for them without including that they still needed luck is misleading. SA was just as lucky as they were smart. Besides the fact that none of us ever saw the medical reports on David Robinson so it is just speculation they were holding him out in order to tank.

NO!! that is not what I was saying and I don't really know how you came to that conclusion. I have always been for playing the young guys and see where the chips fall. Regardless of our position (yes you get better odds) there is still no guarantee that we will draft at the position we earn from our record. Nor is there a guarantee that the player we chose will be a star.

 

[green]

If I recall SA got lucky with the coin toss with Boston. So it isn't just about tanking but getting lucky. I hope my mind isn't playing tricks on me but that is how I remember it.

In this draft there are no sure superstars. Teams make decisions and sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't just ask Portland. Wiggins and Parker have the potential but they aren't Lebron.

This is where this draft has fizzled a little. LeBron, Duncan, Shaq were all sure fire stars. Kobe was as well, but teams were afraid of him because he was only 17. He was told over and over again, that he was the greatest player most GM's saw.

 

[green]

I still think the most sure fire thing in this draft is Parker.

 

[fishonjazz]

NO!! that is not what I was saying and I don't really know how you came to that conclusion. I have always been for playing the young guys and see where the chips fall. Regardless of our position (yes you get better odds) there is still no guarantee that we will draft at the position we earn from our record. Nor is there a guarantee that the player we chose will be a star.

I agree with this.
Imo there is no such thing as a certain star.... not lebron, shaq, jordan, or anyone. They could fall down the stairs and break thier neck. They could get thier big payday in the nba and become lazy and unmotivated, etc. too many things could happen.

I just feel that if you are gonna suck anyways then you might as well suck enough to get the best chance at the best player possible