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The Jazz, David Lee, and Golden State

Handlogten's Heros said:
I've just never watched Barnes and thought... If we had that guy we'd be great. It's more like... Is Harrison Barnes even playing tonight?
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I've seen what Snyder has done with DeMare Carroll, Paul Millsap, Gobert, Exum, Favors, Hayward. Give him talent like Barnes...I'm drooling. That's why I'd send a pick and Burke. Look at Carroll. Carroll went from DL guy to gonna make a lot of money this summer after working with Snyder (who Carroll has credited). Look at Paul incorporating the three point shot into his game.

You guys drool over the potential of a crappy 12 pick. I drool over the potential of a guy that shoots 40% from three, can play some PF, and is only 4 million a year. Plus I rid myself of Burke in the process and give him to the best team? Uh, yes please.
 
green said:
Lee is an afterthought. Lee only plays if Favors or Gobert gets hurt. What other big would sign with us this year? Tomic would not have been cheap. To get him over here, we would have to offer 6-7 million per year just to match what he is getting paid over there. To really get him out here, we are talking 8 per year for three years. Lee is 15 for one year. Lee is a known quantity. Tomic is not.

Picks are way over-rated. Big time. Saric, Adams, Lamb, Burks, Henry, Henderson, Jason Thompson, Young, Hilton Armstrong, Korolev, Swift, Collision, Ely, Radmonivic, Etan Thomas.

Those are your #12 picks this century. Name me one of those guys you would pick over Barnes.

If you can get Barnes for the #12, even if it means eating money for only one year, you do it. Especially when you have Favors and Gobert, and they need outside shooters.

Name me one player the Jazz can pick up for 4 million this offseason who shoots 40% from three. Then name me one player the Jazz can get for 4 million in FA who can play the PF spot and shoot 40% from three.

Any smart person does this deal. Barnes and Lee for Burke and the pick.

No brainer.
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I'd take saric, adams, and burks over him. Lee is a 15 M afterthought? If that's the case lets remove him from the trade... Since he's just an afterthought. Hood shot 40% from 3 after the break and so did Ingles and both of those guys can dribble and pass. Barnes doesn't create he has to be setup. Also he is 4M next year but will be more after that. Do I think we could sign someone for 10 M per year this offseason that shoots 40% from 3... On more than a paltry 2.6 attempts? I think I could. We'd then have additional cap space and Burke and the 12.

Also any smart guy would know how the trade rules work.
 
green said:
Exception to be used for the PG.
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The exception we'd have is 2.6M. We going to get a quality PG for that much?

This is a no brainier in the opposite direction. It's terrible value for Utah. Barnes is good but not all-star talent. Give me 25 mins of Hood at $2M over Barnes at a first year cost of 19m...counting the Lee salary dump PLUS the loss of the other assets. We already have 3 wings who shot 36% or better on their 3's. And ALL of them are playmakers.
 
green said:
That's fine. GS sends back a future protected pick.
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That's a different trade than you suggested, and one id be fine with. My whole point is why would we overpay in that deal by so much.

If we end up with a pick instead of giving a lotto pick and keep Burke then sure see what Barnes has to offer. I still think he's really quite average.
 
green said:
I've seen what Snyder has done with DeMare Carroll, Paul Millsap, Gobert, Exum, Favors, Hayward. Give him talent like Barnes...I'm drooling. That's why I'd send a pick and Burke. Look at Carroll. Carroll went from DL guy to gonna make a lot of money this summer after working with Snyder (who Carroll has credited). Look at Paul incorporating the three point shot into his game.

You guys drool over the potential of a crappy 12 pick. I drool over the potential of a guy that shoots 40% from three, can play some PF, and is only 4 million a year. Plus I rid myself of Burke in the process and give him to the best team? Uh, yes please.
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You said earlier you'd keep Burke over the pick... You are all over the place.

If Barnes is talented and has potential couldn't Snyder work wonders with Oubre or Looney prone of the draftees or are his powers only limited to Barnes.
 
I'd actually rather take Oubre at 12 than trade out for Barnes. Oubre has better speed, better perimeter defense and probably better rebounding. He also slashes better. I actually think Barnes is fairly mediocre. Jazz won't pick him up unless they want to extend him, and personally I'm not sure I would.

Also, why help the Ws for another couple years when we have their pick in '17?
 
Some Warriors fans would rather have Winslow or Stanley Johnson as young prospects than Harrison Barnes on an extension. Just saying...
 
Re-reading the OP, I'd rather stay at 12, take Oubre or even Looney, keep Burke as a back-up PG and keep cap flexibility to do another deal. Getting Harrison Barnes and taking Lee's salary is not a way to improve much, and no way would I give the #12 pick. That pick will net us a player that's as good or better than Barnes on a rookie deal.

I'd pass on this.

Besides, Hood might already be better than Barnes.
 
green said:
Lee is an afterthought. Lee only plays if Favors or Gobert gets hurt. What other big would sign with us this year? Tomic would not have been cheap. To get him over here, we would have to offer 6-7 million per year just to match what he is getting paid over there. To really get him out here, we are talking 8 per year for three years. Lee is 15 for one year. Lee is a known quantity. Tomic is not.

Picks are way over-rated. Big time. Saric, Adams, Lamb, Burks, Henry, Henderson, Jason Thompson, Young, Hilton Armstrong, Korolev, Swift, Collision, Ely, Radmonivic, Etan Thomas.

Those are your #12 picks this century. Name me one of those guys you would pick over Barnes.

If you can get Barnes for the #12, even if it means eating money for only one year, you do it. Especially when you have Favors and Gobert, and they need outside shooters.

Name me one player the Jazz can pick up for 4 million this offseason who shoots 40% from three. Then name me one player the Jazz can get for 4 million in FA who can play the PF spot and shoot 40% from three.

Any smart person does this deal. Barnes and Lee for Burke and the pick.

No brainer.
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Oh green...


Not sure if serious moment right here.
 
After seeing how little the Jazz got back for trading Kanter, I'd be amazed if we offered much for Barnes, let alone offering to take back David Lee's contract. Barnes is heading into RFA as a player who's widely regarded as being mediocre and replaceable. Barnes is the beneficiary of being the 5th option on Golden State. He picks up scraps and hits corner 3s.

There are numerous better options we could take with our cap space, picks and other assets. Doing nothing at all might be included among those options.

We could get guys like Patrick Patterson, Terrence Ross, Tobias Harris and so on without having to take back David Lee. We could draft Stanley Johnson, Kelly Oubre, Kevon Looney or Bobby Portis and have them on a rookie deal for 4 years. We could just divvy up minutes between Hayward, Hood and Burks, etc.
 
I think the FO will shy away from anything that might diminish Hood's role. That said, I think a little competition on that front would be good for Hood, but I have a feeling we are going to see a breakout second season from Hood. He showed poise and control way beyond his years, the most maturity I have seen in a rook in a long time. I wouldn't mind bringing someone in who could either mentor or push him, but I don't think that is Barnes. Barnes has always been the thorn in your side who seems better than he is. He is cocky and shows attitude and hits the big shot often enough that he remains in your memory, but he really isn't that great. I don't think he is any kind of answer for us at all. Pass.
 
Umm no way to the trade in the OP. As others have mentioned doing nothing is far superior to making this trade.
 
Also, now that we are srs about making the PO, we should try to not help out fellow Western Conference teams.
 
The idea that GS would trade Lee and Barnes for Trey and a draft pick, seems ludicrous to me. Lee is a borderline All-Star who has been injured this year and overtaken by Green who has been playing like an All-Star, so despite his contract, I don't think they would give him and Barnes up for such slim pickings. Barnes is a good player / starter on a championship caliber team. I certainly wouldn't do such a deal if I were GS.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
The idea that GS would trade Lee and Barnes for Trey and a draft pick, seems ludicrous to me. Lee is a borderline All-Star who has been injured this year and overtaken by Green who has been playing like an All-Star, so despite his contract, I don't think they would give him and Barnes up for such slim pickings. Barnes is a good player / starter on a championship caliber team. I certainly wouldn't do such a deal if I were GS.
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Barnes is only starting because Kerr thought he needed to start to fill his potential, not because he deserves to start.
 
nightmare3983 said:
Barnes is only starting because Kerr thought he needed to start to fill his potential, not because he deserves to start.
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Nah, he starts because he makes sense in the lineup. You don't want to have Iggy, a ball-handler, playing with the 1st unit when they need his skills in the 2nd unit.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
The idea that GS would trade Lee and Barnes for Trey and a draft pick, seems ludicrous to me. Lee is a borderline All-Star who has been injured this year and overtaken by Green who has been playing like an All-Star, so despite his contract, I don't think they would give him and Barnes up for such slim pickings. Barnes is a good player / starter on a championship caliber team. I certainly wouldn't do such a deal if I were GS.
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I as expecting this response a lot more than what I've been given. We give up nothing for two very good NBA players.

I find the overvaluing of draft picks fantastic.

"I have in one hand, a player that can play two positions and shoots 40% from three and a borderline allstar, and I have in hand two, a terrible PG and a bad draft pick."

Seems like an easy decision, yet most here would take the bad PG and crappy pick.

I'll say it again: if GS wants to get their salary down, and they will if they resign Green, the. You take the deal and run.

Barnes > than the 12 pick.
Lee > Burke.

No brainer.

The real question is this:

Why would GS make such a lopsided trade? Right now, if they resign their players and Green gets mad dollars, they will pay 50 million in taxes and own the highest payroll EVER. If they move Lee, they will be able to use their exceptions to sign players.

If they move Lee for Burke, they immediately upgrade their backup PG spot (or so they think, lol). They move Barnes with Lee to give the team taking Lee a reason to do so. BUT, if GS is going to give up someone as good as Barnes, Trey Burke won't cut it. Hence the pick.

It's a great trade for Utah. By bringing on Lee and Barnes, they look like this:

Exum/????/Cotton
Hayward/Burks/Millsap
Barnes/Hood/Ingles
Favors/Booker/Barnes
Gobert/Favors/Lee

Utah has cap room to then fill out the end of the bench. Once they are over the cap they can then go out and use the 5 million exception to get a get PG.

Next summer, 15 million comes off the cap, they can make a decision on Barnes.

What I find funny is that everyone's hesitation for bringing in Barnes is you are worried about his cost. Don't we want him to become a max player? Wouldn't trading a 12 pick and Burke for a max player be EXACTLY what we want?

Wouldn't that be the sign of a GREAT trade for Utah?

But no, we are in love with a 12 pick, where Alec Burks, a bench guy, is more alluring than Barnes, a potential max player.

I stand by my post. If GS needs to move Lee, and they do, use them to better yourself.

Who is a FA that we could sign that is better and has more potential than Barnes?

This deal is a no brainer for Utah.
 
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