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The Jordan Clarkson equation

If we are talking in term of equation the big question is what hurts us more: Clarkson on defense vs Forrest on the offense (assuming that teams will scout him and start sagging off)? Also I agree that you shouldnt bench JC for missing shots, but you should bench him if he is cold and starts chucking wild shots instead of passing the ball and limiting himself to taking just wide open ones.
 
Jazzmix said:
If we are talking in term of equation the big question is what hurts us more: Clarkson on defense vs Forrest on the offense (assuming that teams will scout him and start sagging off)? Also I agree that you shouldnt bench JC for missing shots, but you should bench him if he is cold and starts chucking wild shots instead of passing the ball and limiting himself to taking just wide open ones.
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Teams have already been sagging off on Forrest but he's so explosive that he blows by his man anyways. Plus he's a willing shooter unlike Simmons and would take the shot when open. I'm more than OK with Forrest taking those shots than Clarkson forcing things and taking ill-advised shots when being heavily guarded.
 
Jazzmix said:
assuming that teams will scout him and start sagging off)
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They will come playoff time
jom2003 said:
Teams have already been sagging off on Forrest but he's so explosive that he blows by his man anyways. Plus he's a willing shooter unlike Simmons and would take the shot when open. I'm more than OK with Forrest taking those shots than Clarkson forcing things and taking ill-advised shots when being heavily guarded.
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Sagging off in the regular season is different from what teams will do in the playoffs as they will have much more detailed scouting reports. I just watched every possession of the gs game for Forrest, everytiime Forrest brought the ball up in the half court, he was met by his defender above the three point line, then the defender starts to back up and Forrest takes off and blows by his man. That won’t be how he’s defended in the playoffs
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
This needs its own thread because it’s that important to the jazz’s Championship aspirations.

Over the last three games there’s been a big shift in the way he plays within the team system. He’s a big reason why the jazz got off to such a fast start last year. Quin gave him such a huge green light that he took his aggressive play style to a new level. It feels like Quin might be finally reeling him in a bit. I’ve noticed him moving the ball more, and not looking to shoot every time he gets the ball. He even had two back to back possessions where he threw lobs to Dok. Dok even stated he was expecting him to shoot those.

Over the last three games, he’s been more efficient, and would’ve been even more efficient had his three ball been dropping.

If this continues imo he will continue to improve on where he was and making this team more lethal a lot like the beginning to middle of last year.
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The Jazz have other guys in the 2nd unit who can score and play on the ball. They're not as reliant as JC. What JC is good at is attacking a switch and breaking down the defense. That's his real value. The Jazz are still short on players who do that.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
They will come playoff time

Sagging off in the regular season is different from what teams will do in the playoffs as they will have much more detailed scouting reports. I just watched every possession of the gs game for Forrest, everytiime Forrest brought the ball up in the half court, he was met by his defender above the three point line, then the defender starts to back up and Forrest takes off and blows by his man. That won’t be how he’s defended in the playoffs
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Defenders are going to sag way off Forrest and they're going to go under every screen. They know he's not going to shoot out on the floor. This is why his 25% 3pt shooting is a problem. This is also why NAW is going to be ahead of Forrest in the rotation within a couple weeks, imo. If Mike needs a rest or misses games, the Jazz don't have Joe Ingles to come in and cover for him. NAW should be able to work as a backup.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Not how basketball works. And same thing.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
You don’t bench a player for doing what you tell them to do. He’s had this freedom from Quin for years.
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How many playoff exits do we need before you realise this is exactly how basketball and sport in general works.

That's just idiotic. Every player should be judged on how they're playing with more leeway given to the guys who are proven performers, for Clarkson his game is reliant on his shot falling, if it isn't then we have other options who could help us win a game. To blindly put faith in Clarkson when there are other alternatives is ludicrous, it's like down the stretch when we go ISO Donovan over and over again. Yes he is someone we want to have the ball in his hands but he isn't the only option.
 
Tom349 said:
How many playoff exits do we need before you realise this is exactly how basketball and sport in general works.

That's just idiotic. Every player should be judged on how they're playing with more leeway given to the guys who are proven performers, for Clarkson his game is reliant on his shot falling, if it isn't then we have other options who could help us win a game. To blindly put faith in Clarkson when there are other alternatives is ludicrous, it's like down the stretch when we go ISO Donovan over and over again. Yes he is someone we want to have the ball in his hands but he isn't the only option.
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Yeah, but then you make players extremely nervous to shoot because they know if they miss shots, they are getting pulled.

It's a double-edged sword. Clarkson can be as good as he is (at times) because of his leash.

The key is to just shave a bit of minutes off here and there. Not to completely bench him. So instead of like 27 minutes, you play him 22, or something like that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, but then you make players extremely nervous to shoot because they know if they miss shots, they are getting pulled.

It's a double-edged sword. Clarkson can be as good as he is (at times) because of his leash.

The key is to just shave a bit of minutes off here and there. Not to completely bench him. So instead of like 27 minutes, you play him 22, or something like that.
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Or just convince him to throw lobs 2 or 3 times a game. JC breaks down the D well. He just needs to balance his passing and shooting better.
 
Tom349 said:
How many playoff exits do we need before you realise this is exactly how basketball and sport in general works.

That's just idiotic. Every player should be judged on how they're playing with more leeway given to the guys who are proven performers, for Clarkson his game is reliant on his shot falling, if it isn't then we have other options who could help us win a game. To blindly put faith in Clarkson when there are other alternatives is ludicrous, it's like down the stretch when we go ISO Donovan over and over again. Yes he is someone we want to have the ball in his hands but he isn't the only option.
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benching doesn't work. you will lose the locker room if that's your forte. one day nobody will play for you. basketball is a big brotherhood, everybody knows.
 
Qman said:
Or just convince him to throw lobs 2 or 3 times a game. JC breaks down the D well. He just needs to balance his passing and shooting better.
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Yeah, idk, he just isnt that good at passing. He doesnt have vision. I dont think it's a selfish thing.

He just has to compete harder on D. He can play good man D at times. He has the length and quickness. He just gets lost off-ball. That's really the only thing, along with not taking the terrible terrible shots, that you can really crack down on as a coach.
 
This year is kind of a flukey bad year for Clarkson in a lot of ways.

His C&S % has dropped really far. It's 30%. He's always been a pretty good C&S 3pt shooter. So even when he's taking the good shots, he's not hitting them.

The weirdest thing is that according to tracking stats, his "Open" 3pt % is only 25%. His wide open is 37%

His open % has always been pretty high, like 35 or above. It's just a weird year.
 
Clarkson game is love n hate. sure hell brick some shots, hog the ball, next play hell do something magical and the crowd erupts and it's glorious. when he does that the team gets energized. no dedman can do that.
 
Frankly if we can get the whole team to buy into playing as strong on defense as they can and we get even a minor uptick in our overall defensive effort we will just straight to the top tier without much change on our offensive sets at all. Let Clarkson do what he does as long as he is also committing to up his D at least somewhat. If everyone does we will be a very tough out.
 
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