D
Deleted member 95
Guest
Anyone watch the first two episodes yet? Will they even talk about the Jazz? Discuss.
D
Deleted member 95
Guest
It's only on Netflix for people outside the US. A VPN might work.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
I watched it and thought it was fantastic. I know Jordan was worried it would paint him in a bad light and I don’t think it’s done that at all. In fact, when he talked about his rookie year and going to his roommate’s hotel room, I thought that painted him in an extraordinarily good light. The only part where he came off a little douchy to me was when he said he thought Pippen was being selfish when he held out in 1997. It’s very easy for him to say that since he was probably making ~75M a year all-in minimally. Pippen wasn’t even a top 130 paid player. He deserved to be paid (hell, he had been in the league nine years at that point) and I think MJ was in the wrong to say that. Not a huge deal though.
Troat Guru
Well-Known Member
Speaking of "The last dance", I actually was quite surprised about salaries in 1997-1998 season.
MJ ($33.14 million) was paid more than the whole Utah Jazz team (28.5 million)...that's sound me strange and interesting.
(And think that Scottie had only a $2.775 million deal)
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/04/ho...-and-the-bulls-make-during-the-1997-98-season
MJ ($33.14 million) was paid more than the whole Utah Jazz team (28.5 million)...that's sound me strange and interesting.
(And think that Scottie had only a $2.775 million deal)
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/04/ho...-and-the-bulls-make-during-the-1997-98-season
candrew
Well-Known Member
Call me overly cynical but I'm sure Jordan had at least implied if not explicit creative control over the entire project.
They never could have made the documentary without his clout and cooperation - I don't believe for a second there's anything in there that he isn't OK with.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
It not cynical at all. That was part of the deal before cameras rolled. He had 100% ability to cut anything out
once it was produced. There was an article on ESPN about it this past weekend.
candrew
Well-Known Member
That's because until the ridiculous Ostertag contract, Stockton, Malone and Hornacek took "home-town" discounts. That set the pay scale for the rest of the team at a very, very low bar.
checkbookdoc
Well-Known Member
I watched them. Episodes 1 & 2 were consistently good with some great moments.
I was impressed at how important team was for Jordan. He is consistently talking about, and viewing situations through the lens of, what is best for the team rather than what is best for the individual. For example: Trading Oakley, Pippen holding out, Jordan hating his minutes restrictions, etc. I found this team focus to be refreshing. Also, I loved the fact that Jordan was willing to say that Pippen was selfish with his contract holdout. It was clear that Jordan loves Pippen and he heaped praise on Scottie. But it is also clear that Jordan was hurt and disappointed that Pippen would sabotage the team for something that would only benefit himself.
I also think they did a good job of not making Pippen out to be a bad guy. They highlight his tough childhood and his unusual path to the NBA. They show how Pippen was under a lot of pressure to provide for his family. They show how skilled he was as a player and how vital he was to the Bull's team. Overall, I understood why Pippen was happy to get the deal when he signed it, and also how he was significantly underpaid relative to his peers at the end of the contract (the last dance year). Personally, I agree with Jordan, that Pippen should have been focused on the team and winning instead of trying to force his way out of his agreement... but I also see why Scottie believed he was wronged by the Bulls.
I was impressed at how important team was for Jordan. He is consistently talking about, and viewing situations through the lens of, what is best for the team rather than what is best for the individual. For example: Trading Oakley, Pippen holding out, Jordan hating his minutes restrictions, etc. I found this team focus to be refreshing. Also, I loved the fact that Jordan was willing to say that Pippen was selfish with his contract holdout. It was clear that Jordan loves Pippen and he heaped praise on Scottie. But it is also clear that Jordan was hurt and disappointed that Pippen would sabotage the team for something that would only benefit himself.
I also think they did a good job of not making Pippen out to be a bad guy. They highlight his tough childhood and his unusual path to the NBA. They show how Pippen was under a lot of pressure to provide for his family. They show how skilled he was as a player and how vital he was to the Bull's team. Overall, I understood why Pippen was happy to get the deal when he signed it, and also how he was significantly underpaid relative to his peers at the end of the contract (the last dance year). Personally, I agree with Jordan, that Pippen should have been focused on the team and winning instead of trying to force his way out of his agreement... but I also see why Scottie believed he was wronged by the Bulls.
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Miggs
Well-Known Member
@checkbookdoc
I completely disagree. A player at some point should be paid their worth. Pippen was looooong overdue being paid. And like I said, it’s really easy for Jordan to say he was being selfish because Jordan was being paid an insane amount. ~100M all-in.
I completely disagree. A player at some point should be paid their worth. Pippen was looooong overdue being paid. And like I said, it’s really easy for Jordan to say he was being selfish because Jordan was being paid an insane amount. ~100M all-in.
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checkbookdoc
Well-Known Member
I get your argument but I just have a different opinion. Here are a few of my thoughts:
1) I think the only time a player has the right to be paid what they are worth is during free agency. After that, they have the right to be paid whatever was agreed to. Sometimes it will be below their worth and sometimes it is above their worth. When Pippen signed his contract he was happy with it and thought it was fair. In the first year of the deal he was the 16th highest paid player in the NBA (even though he wasn't even an all-star yet). Pippen was unusually risk adverse because of his family situation so he agreed to a long term extension early in his rookie deal to get security for his family. It wasn't a dumb choice given that he had already dealt with back surgery, it just ended up not going his way.
2) Before leaving the Bulls Pippen made +$21M and over his entire career he made over $100M. This is not a situation where someone is just trying to make a decent living.
3) You will note that Pippen did not return any of his salary to the Blazers when he ended up getting paid much more than he was worth. Seems like in the end Pippen changed his mind about if contracts should be amended based on player performance. LOL
4) I wish that Pippen would have stuck to his guns. Maybe the Jazz would have a ring!
Miggs
Well-Known Member
2, 3, and 4 have no bearing on what we are talking about. In fact, 2 is only true because he held out. Had he not, he might have been royally screwed for his career.
checkbookdoc
Well-Known Member
I think that points 1, 2, & 3 combine to show that even if he had not held out he would not have been "royally screwed for his career". But that is my opinion. Think whatever you want.
Beer
Well-Known Member
For sure. He seems to be going out of his way to sound pleasant in his interviews. Looks fake.
Until you realize that Jordan would have carefully chosen a production team that wouldn't put him in a bad light in the first place. that's pretty much what all major media presences and players do (yes, including news organizations), hire people who already support their view point.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
I don’t find this to be true at all. This is one of the main things that was most attractive about him and even Kobe in interviews. Both were very thoughtful and intelligent.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Really liked last night a lot. Jordan cursing a ton in the interviews. But it all seemed 100% honest to me. My favorite parts were when he said something to the effect of “I told Horace stop ****ing whining. If they see that, they’ve won.” Or something. The whole old school mentality. How tough these guys were.
candrew
Well-Known Member
I'm enjoying the documentary but it's a glorified puff piece.
I'm waiting to see how they'll handle the gambling rumors, his father's murder and his temporary "retirement" but I wouldn't expect much.
Just more stuff about how Isaiah is a douche because he wouldn't shake hands after losing to Chicago.
