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The Last Dance

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candrew said:
I'm enjoying the documentary but it's a glorified puff piece.

I'm waiting to see how they'll handle the gambling rumors, his father's murder and his temporary "retirement" but I wouldn't expect much.

Just more stuff about how Isaiah is a douche because he wouldn't shake hands after losing to Chicago.
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I agree to an extent but what do you want them to say? Is it disingenuous?
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I don’t find this to be true at all. This is one of the main things that was most attractive about him and even Kobe in interviews. Both were very thoughtful and intelligent.
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I've given MJ a ride to and from Park City dozens of times (Kobe a few times too) and I agree with your take. Jordan was no saint though. This documentary only adds to the great admiration I have for the man.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
I agree to an extent but what do you want them to say? Is it disingenuous?
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature but no doubt in my mind we know nothing more than the tip of the iceberg regarding him leaving basketball in 93.

If this documentary was just about his commitment to greatness as a basketball player then that would be one thing; but this documentary has been more than willing to sling a few arrows at others, most of them at a dead guy who can't defend himself - so you'd hope they would also shine the light on a subject that has been largely unexamined.
 
candrew said:
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature but no doubt in my mind we know nothing more than the tip of the iceberg regarding him leaving basketball in 93.

If this documentary was just about his commitment to greatness as a basketball player then that would be one thing; but this documentary has been more than willing to sling a few arrows at others, most of them at a dead guy who can't defend himself - so you'd hope they would also shine the light on a subject that has been largely unexamined.
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His exit from basketball for reasons other than anything he stated has been largely debunked.

The documentary is on the team, not MJ, and he’s not the only one slinging arrows at Krause. Pippen has a ton. Phil. Kerr even. I may even be forgetting someone. So far as the subject being largely unexamined, it hasn’t been relevant to this point based on the flow of the doc. Each has had its own topic and to the point, that hasn’t been one of them.
 
I wish they wouldn't have spent so much time on Rodman. I just don't think that part was very interesting or that it showed a lot of new info/insights. But, I will admit it helped to highlight how crazy that last year was. Same with the Jackson stuff. It just highlights how MJ was in a really tough spot (2 best teammates were checked out, Coach was a lame duck, GM was hated and publicly wanted to blow it up, etc.).

I would have watched 20 more minutes on the Bulls/Pistons. Wish we got more of the Piston's perspective (like we got from Celtics before). Could have asked Rodman and especially Lambier (he is usually unfiltered and would have been great at expressing resentment to MJ). I mean, a big topic was the no shake walk-off and sounds like it was all Bill's idea and he stands behind it still.

Also, I loved how the Jazz were introduced at the end of episode 4. They built up that Bulls/Jazz game and how it is a litmus test on the season... and the Jazz win. Gave me some chills. That really was the year we should have won... wonder if it will be shown as MJ winning or the Jazz choking.
 
I was born in 83. I thought I "grew up watching" Jordan.

Does anyone else find watching younger Jordan a lil awkward? Like he was great, better and more athletic than the talent he played against, but not quite the gawd he was after 94?

I was born in 83 so seeing younger Jordan and the footage is fascinating.

Jordan is the GOAT. No question in my mind. James is the Chosen One, but Jordan is the GOAT.

Dude would have been the best then, now and tomorrow imo.
 
I heard a story about Jordan on the radio the other day.
Apparently he was golfing with some Chicago hockey player who was a good golfer and he bet the guy 2000 dollars that he could beat him in 18 holes of golf. The hockey dude won. So Jordan played another 18 against him double or nothing. And the hockey dude won again.
The thing is that Jordan had a game later that night. The hockey dude told Jordan that he was going to bet his winnings on the bulls opponent that night cause he figured Jordan would be tired from 36 holes of golfing (oh ya and they were drinking the whole time) and a little hung over.

Jordan said I will bet you double or nothing that my bulls win tonight and I score 40.
Well the bulls won and Jordan scored 40.

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fishonjazz said:
I heard a story about Jordan on the radio the other day.
Apparently he was golfing with some Chicago hockey player who was a good golfer and he bet the guy 2000 dollars that he could beat him in 18 holes of golf. The hockey dude won. So Jordan played another 18 against him double or nothing. And the hockey dude won again.
The thing is that Jordan had a game later that night. The hockey dude told Jordan that he was going to bet his winnings on the bulls opponent that night cause he figured Jordan would be tired from 36 holes of golfing (oh ya and they were drinking the whole time) and a little hung over.

Jordan said I will bet you double or nothing that my bulls win tonight and I score 40.
Well the bulls won and Jordan scored 40.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Didn’t Pete Rose go into exile for that?
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya basically.
I have always felt like you should be able to bet on your own team.

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Didn't Shoeless Joe Jackson's team prove why you shouldn't be able to regardless if they did or not?


Athletes betting on their own teams is as dumb as Pete Rose not being in the HOF. There's a line there somewhere. I think I see it.
 
Former Columbo Family Capo Michael Franzese (who is now a Christian Minister) is on record as saying in the late 80s/early 90s Jordan was "the biggest degenerate gambler he ever met in his life." This is a bold statement coming from a guy who court documents show had at least a dozen bookies working for him when he was in the mob.

Franzese is also on record as saying Jordan's father was murdered because of MJ's continual attempts to welch on gambling debts with the wrong people.

There's also stories of Jordan negotiating down seven figure gambling debts. So the question is how did he negotiate them down? As mentioned earlier Jeremy Roenick said Jordan put double or nothing on a 2k debt on his performance in a basketball game. Does that makes it plausible he shaved points on a million-plus dollar debt? Who knows.

The point is there is way to much smoke not to be any fire. And you'll never convince me the most competitive player of all time just walked away from the game for 18 months voluntarily.
 
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fishonjazz said:
I heard a story about Jordan on the radio the other day.
Apparently he was golfing with some Chicago hockey player who was a good golfer and he bet the guy 2000 dollars that he could beat him in 18 holes of golf. The hockey dude won. So Jordan played another 18 against him double or nothing. And the hockey dude won again.
The thing is that Jordan had a game later that night. The hockey dude told Jordan that he was going to bet his winnings on the bulls opponent that night cause he figured Jordan would be tired from 36 holes of golfing (oh ya and they were drinking the whole time) and a little hung over.

Jordan said I will bet you double or nothing that my bulls win tonight and I score 40.
Well the bulls won and Jordan scored 40.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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candrew said:
Former Columbo Family Capo Michael Franzese (who is now a Christian Minister) is on record as saying in the late 80s/early 90s Jordan was "the biggest degenerate gambler he ever met in his life." This is a bold statement coming from a guy who court documents show had at least a dozen bookies working for him when he was in the mob.

Franzese is also on record as saying Jordan's father was murdered because of MJ's continual attempts to welch on gambling debts with the wrong people.

There's also stories of Jordan negotiating down six figure gambling debts. So the question is how did he negotiate them down? As mentioned earlier Jeremy Roenick said Jordan put double or nothing on a 2k debt on his performance in a basketball game. Does that makes it plausible he shaved points on a million-plus dollar debt? Who knows.

The point is there is way to much smoke not to be any fire. And you'll never convince me the most competitive player of all time just walked away from the game for 18 months voluntarily.
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Barry Sanders walked away. We see it it from time to time. And his dad had just been murdered. Sorry, but everything I’ve read said it’s been debunked. If what you’re saying is so true, with so many writers, journalists and wanna-bes out there, someone would have written an intelligent book exploring the topic over the last 25 years. And are we to believe a known monster? And what? The mob outsources to a couple hicks now? The theory seems highly implausible.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
And what? The mob outsources to a couple hicks now? The theory seems highly implausible.
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Those two *******s didn't kill Jordan - they either found him dead after the fact or were tipped off by a local drug dealer.

One ratted out the other to save his own ***. They both maintain their innocence. I also found it odd the public story (they found him sleeping in his car off the highway) is not what was testified in court - Jordan was killed in a case of mistaken identity in a hotel parking lot.
 
Spot betting used to go on in the early days of the EPL. Odds would be offered on crap like which team kicks the ball out of play first, West Ham players used to put the hat around and the kit manager would place the bet before kick off. Harmless way to pocket a few hundred quid each off dickhead bookies.
 
candrew said:
Those two *******s didn't kill Jordan - they either found him dead after the fact or were tipped off by a local drug dealer.

One ratted out the other to save his own ***. They both maintain their innocence. I also found it odd the public story (they found him sleeping in his car off the highway) is not what was testified in court - Jordan was killed in a case of mistaken identity in a hotel parking lot.
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A guilty person maintaining his innocence. I’m shocked.

http://graphics.chicagotribune.com/james-jordan-murder/index.html

This reads pretty to the contrary of what you’re saying.
 
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