The Legacy of the Kobe Bryant Rape Case

[GVC]

Maybe none. However, Kobe's wife didn't sign up for the added risk of STDs and apparently believed she was in a monogamous relationship.

None of my business. Don't know if she'd have legal recourse if Kobe was increasing her risk of getting STDs, but she could have (and still can) sue for divorce.

I don't really care what people do, sexually or otherwise, but as I've expressed in this thread, I do care if all the parties involved consent.

If your post was only to highlight that slut-shaming is a problem, I agree with you. It seemed you were doing more than that though.

Athletes and other entertainers are just people, and don't make a particularly noteworthy contribution to society through their profession. I see no reason to celebrate or scrutinize their personal lives. That 'news' outlets do so shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity.

 

[Gameface]

None of my business. Don't know if she'd have legal recourse if Kobe was increasing her risk of getting STDs, but she could have (and still can) sue for divorce.

If your post was only to highlight that slut-shaming is a problem, I agree with you. It seemed you were doing more than that though.

Athletes and other entertainers are just people, and don't make a particularly noteworthy contribution to society through their profession. I see no reason to celebrate or scrutinize their personal lives. That 'news' outlets do so shows a complete lack of journalistic integrity.

I agree with you. While Kobe's conduct might not be any of your or my business the issue here is the way the media covered this issue where they focused on the victim's conduct and gave Kobe a free pass. Really, outside what happened in that room, neither of their conduct matters in regard to wether she was raped or not.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm not saying that it's common, but to blindly believe an accuser is foolish, IMO. Call them anecdotes all you want, and they certainly are, but I'm sure most people know of situations like this.

the stats show that it is foolish to not institute a precedence of believing the accuser.

 

[Boris]

the stats show that it is foolish to not institute a precedence of believing the accuser.

Most ppl initially assumed Kobe was guilty. I bet Bern did as well. Thx for stating the obvious.

 

[RandyForRubio]

the stats show that it is foolish to not institute a precedence of believing the accuser.

I take it you disagree with the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

Anyways, I never said you shouldn't believe the accuser, I specifically stated you shouldn't blindly believe them. World of difference, and you should know that.

 

[JazzGal]

That's still incredibly imprecise. Does consent end at the moment an individual stops actively participating? Is that always entirely clear in the heat of the moment? How much time does the offender have to recognize that there is no longer consent? Does the difference in public discourse about rape -- then v. now -- play no role?

Just because women didn't have as much of a voice as they do now (baby steps), I do not accept that men were not responsible for their perceptions of what constitutes rape in 2003 anymore than they are now. Based on my perceptions, men who were unenlightened then usually still are. Men who thought women deserve respect then most likely still do.

Listen to your partner. If she cannot communicate her consent, then it is rape. If she says "no" or "stop" or "don't do that" or pushes you away and you still proceed, it is rape. Simple.

I was not insinuating that you were a rapist. I was insinuating that perhaps you are doing it wrong if you can't tell if your partner is into it.

 

[GVC]

Just because women didn't have as much of a voice as they do now (baby steps), I do not accept that men were not responsible for their perceptions of what constitutes rape in 2003 anymore than they are now. Based on my perceptions, men who were unenlightened then usually still are. Men who thought women deserve respect then most likely still do.

Google 'affirmative consent'. That discussion is far more prevalent today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's a discussion that needs to happen because there simply are grey areas. Sex can, for example, be violent, selfish and consensual. Affirmative consent doesn't only protect women from disrespectful men and outright rapists; it also protects well-meaning men in situations that seem ambiguous. You're unwilling to accept that consent isn't always black and white or to have an open, honest discussion about it. That's a mistake.

Listen to your partner. If she cannot communicate her consent, then it is rape. If she says "no" or "stop" or "don't do that" or pushes you away and you still proceed, it is rape. Simple.

How many times are you going to change your standard for what constitutes rape? I've seen three sometimes contradictory standards in this thread alone.

I was not insinuating that you were a rapist. I was insinuating that perhaps you are doing it wrong if you can't tell if your partner is into it.

I've never been in a situation where consent from my partner wasn't clear. That doesn't mean I can't conceive of such situations.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

Google 'affirmative consent'. That discussion is far more prevalent today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's a discussion that needs to happen because there simply are grey areas. Sex can, for example, be violent, selfish and consensual. Affirmative consent doesn't only protect women from disrespectful men and outright rapists; it also protects well-meaning men in situations that seem ambiguous. You're unwilling to accept that consent isn't always black and white or to have an open, honest discussion about it. That's a mistake.

How many times are you going to change your standard for what constitutes rape? I've seen three sometimes contradictory standards in this thread alone.

1. I've never been in a situation where consent from my partner wasn't clear. That doesn't mean I can't conceive of such situations.

2. Maybe you should publish a pamphlet. I'm sure the advice of a middle-aged, middle-American woman, who spent her prime sexy years single in a sexually repressive cult, will be enlightening.

Dude why the hostility ? Can't you just debate the matter without getting aggressive and condescending ?

 

[GVC]

Dude why the hostility ? Can't you just debate the matter without getting aggressive and condescending ?

Just responding in kind.

edit: I went ahead and edited my post. Not that it matters now.

 

[Boris]

Google 'affirmative consent'. That discussion is far more prevalent today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's a discussion that needs to happen because there simply are grey areas. Sex can, for example, be violent, selfish and consensual. Affirmative consent doesn't only protect women from disrespectful men and outright rapists; it also protects well-meaning men in situations that seem ambiguous. You're unwilling to accept that consent isn't always black and white or to have an open, honest discussion about it. That's a mistake.

How many times are you going to change your standard for what constitutes rape? I've seen three sometimes contradictory standards in this thread alone.

I've never been in a situation where consent from my partner wasn't clear. That doesn't mean I can't conceive of such situations.

You are walking a fine line. Get ready for Gameface and Jason to neg troll you and issue infractions. Anything that is not rape is rape. There can be no detailed discussion.

 

[Gameface]

You are walking a fine line. Get ready for Gameface and Jason to neg troll you and issue infractions. Anything that is not rape is rape. There can be no detailed discussion.

Haven't negged him once. He was a little hostile to jazzgal, but he's discussing the issue in an honest way and not degrading women in the process. And jazzgal can handle her business without help from me.

 

[Boris]

Haven't negged him once. He was a little hostile to jazzgal, but he's discussing the issue in an honest way and not degrading women in the process. And jazzgal can handle her business without help from me.

I love how you completely avoid the discussion when GVC has you nailed to the wall so you turn to character assassination of me. You ever been clubbing bro? There are some nasty drunk skanks out there. You negging me and mods infracting me and Jason cyber bullying me do nothing but prove how stupid your stance is.

 

[Gameface]

I love how you completely avoid the discussion when GVC has you nailed to the wall so you turn to character assassination of me. You ever been clubbing bro? There are some nasty drunk skanks out there. You negging me and mods infracting me and Jason cyber bullying me do nothing but prove how stupid your stance is.

I've tried to respond to GVC as best I can. If I haven't addressed questions he's raised is because I don't have an answer.

I'm here (in this discussion) to learn and to express my opinion. If GVC is beating me that's okay with me.

 

[JazzGal]

Google 'affirmative consent'. That discussion is far more prevalent today than it was 10-15 years ago. It's a discussion that needs to happen because there simply are grey areas. Sex can, for example, be violent, selfish and consensual. Affirmative consent doesn't only protect women from disrespectful men and outright rapists; it also protects well-meaning men in situations that seem ambiguous. You're unwilling to accept that consent isn't always black and white or to have an open, honest discussion about it. That's a mistake.

How many times are you going to change your standard for what constitutes rape? I've seen three sometimes contradictory standards in this thread alone.

I'm not sure what you want. I'm not going to spell out every possible sexual situation (even if I could) and define consent. Nor do I see how my definitions of consent have been inconsistent. I am willing to accept that consent is not always black and white, but grey areas mean one could be in a situation where what you believe is not what she believes. Is it worth the risk?

Your deleted paragraph made me laugh. Touche. I guess you'll have to find someone you consider more qualified for this discussion. I can't give you what you are looking for, apparently.


Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[candrew]

If l had to guess I'd say this young lady was starstruck and gave the typical DTF signals that celebrities like Kobe are well versed in. But then it turned ugly real fast when Kobe figured he'd treat her like a dirty rag, bend her over a chair, have rough sex with her for all off 5 minutes and then forcibly ejaculate in her face. Sometime during all that humiliation l have no doubt she said no or stop.

The only gray area is in Kobe's narcissistic mind. To the rest of the world this is rape.