The Morman hypothetical

[One Brow]

I don't recall Edge disrespecting you in any way whatsoever. In fact, he wrote this:

I don't recall saying Edgewriter was disrespectful. However, Edgewriter also wrote, " They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.".

Now, maybe he didn't mean what he wrote. So, that's why I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others.

 

[Hopper]

The disrespect which militant atheists routinely flaunt has nuthin to do with what's right or wrong. It's mainly an intellectual pose, with the atheists being reasonable (if not brilliant) and non-atheists being stupid fools.

 

[One Brow]

The disrespect which militant atheists routinely flaunt has nuthin to do with what's right or wrong. It's mainly an intellectual pose, with the atheists being reasonable (if not brilliant) and non-atheists being stupid fools.

I find to be true of militants from just about any group.

 

[Hopper]

I find to be true of militants from just about any group.

Witcha there, homeboy.

 

[Edgewriter]

I don't recall saying Edgewriter was disrespectful. However, Edgewriter also wrote, " They don't believe in the concept of right and wrong the same way we do, so they will not have respect for anything you have to say on the subject.".

Now, maybe he didn't mean what he wrote. So, that's why I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others.

One Brow My statement wasn't meant to disrespect you or any atheist in particular. Duuchey McDoucherson however is still douchey and I may have to claim mutual disrespect with him.

You said: "I asked him if he meant it when people don't agree on morality, they don't have respect for the opinions of others. "

There is a difference between respecting someones morals and respecting someone's opinion. When people don't respect my opinion it isn't a big deal to me. I take my morals more personally.

My opinion is that we should respect each others beliefs

What I meant by that statement was that Atheists tend to dismiss our sense of right and wrong when it has a religious context. In my experience, when you tell them that you "believe" something, they view your belief as irrelevant.

 

[moevillini]

part of it is that we can only see this from our own perspective. Someone who believes our morals are divine and came "from God" applies that belief to everyone. Someone who is a skeptic towards God, and believes that morals came from the social contract that "man" developed through his own social interactions, believes that applies to everyone. It doesn't matter how much you tell me your morals came from God, since I don't believe in God, I can't accept that as the origin of your morals, and I'll continue to believe that your morals came from the "social contract" regardless of how much you try to convince me of the opposite.

it's like if I believe babies come from the stork, then it doesn't matter what you believe - I'm going to believe you came from a stork, no matter how much you try to tell me otherwise.

anyhow, that's how I interpreted what Edge was saying.


at any rate, the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter whether or not we agree on where they came from, as long as we agree on similar basic principles of right and wrong

 

[Hopper]

...it doesn't really matter whether or not we agree on where they came from, as long as we agree on similar basic principles of right and wrong

Peoples aint never gunna agree on basic principles of right and wrong, eh, Mo? Is it right (wrong) to execute brutal criminals known to have commited atrocious crimes?

Unfortunately, far too many people, after all the big talk is finished, tend to reduce "right" and "wrong" to what is convenient for, and beneficial to, them, personally.

 

[Hopper]

Certain cultures place relatively little value on comfort, safety, and the "regulation" of others and put a much higher premium on strength, bravery, and self determination. Ancient Spartans and certain native indian tribes come to mind, as examples.

Many have argued that those who value the former more than the latter are "decadent" (as opposed to vital) cultures. Who's right?

 

[One Brow]

What I meant by that statement was that Atheists tend to dismiss our sense of right and wrong when it has a religious context. In my experience, when you tell them that you "believe" something, they view your belief as irrelevant.

I suppose that when it comes to matters like coffee and blood transfusions, the moral beliefs as such do spring from a religious source.

However, for we atheists, religious sources are not the origin, but the continuation of the habits, thoughts, and opinons of people. Further, when people no longer accept a religious proclamation as valid personally, they find/invent a "legitimate" way to disregard the religious instruction. A good example is the shellfish and homosexual behavior of a certain type are both abominations in Leviticus, but one has been discarded while the other has been expanded, due to the subsequent preferences of the believers.

moevillini, I don't know if I would describe morals as arising in a social contract (something exterior to humans), as much as our sense of empathy that most members of our species possess. The social contract, to the degree it exists at all, is a codification of the varying degrees/types of empathy into a social framework.

 

[moevillini]

moevillini, I don't know if I would describe morals as arising in a social contract (something exterior to humans), as much as our sense of empathy that most members of our species possess. The social contract, to the degree it exists at all, is a codification of the varying degrees/types of empathy into a social framework.

sort of splitting hairs here I think, but I don't disagree either

at any rate, it's again a matter of taking different paths to arrive at the same destination

if we both agree that killing another human being is wrong (except perhaps in self-defense) it doesn't necessarily matter that you think it's because of some innate "empathy" - and I think it's because of some "Age of Enlightenment - Social Contract" theory and a third person believes it's because that's what God commanded.

 

[Hopper]

sort of splitting hairs here I think,

if we both agree that killing another human being is wrong (except perhaps in self-defense) .

Splittin hairs, it ROCKS, eh, Mo!? And here I thought ya done said ya wasn't opposed to the DP in principle. Zup wit dat? Dat aint zakly self-defense, is it? I mean, it kinda is mebbe, but they aint no immediate threat from da fool, just before the firin squad squeezes off dem rounds, ya know?

 

[Edgewriter]

I suppose that when it comes to matters like coffee and blood transfusions, the moral beliefs as such do spring from a religious source.

And there is the attitude I was talking about. Thanks for proving my point. (Even though I don't have a religious viewpoint regarding blood transfusions.)

Look, I have disagreements with other religions on many issues including the those with the religion of atheism. I don't understand the resoning behind many of their beliefs. But as long as their beliefs don't encourage them to harm me or my family in any way, who cares. I let them be.

 

[Hopper]

“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that things are difficult.” (Seneca)

Just thought I would throw dat in, eh? Seems relevant, somehowze.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Look, I have disagreements with other religions on many issues including the those with the religion of atheism.

I don't think there's a rolleyes smilie big enough to properly respond to this.

 

[Hopper]

I don't think there's a rolleyes smilie big enough to properly respond to this.

Ya tryin to suggest that atheism caint be it's own form of religion, dat it, eh, Dark? If so, den I givez sum rollyeyez right back atcha, eh?

 

[One Brow]

And there is the attitude I was talking about. Thanks for proving my point. (Even though I don't have a religious viewpoint regarding blood transfusions.)

What attitude? Should I not suppose the moral beliefs come from a religious source?

Look, I have disagreements with other religions on many issues including the those with the religion of atheism. I don't understand the resoning behind many of their beliefs. But as long as their beliefs don't encourage them to harm me or my family in any way, who cares. I let them be.

There is no such thing as a religion of atheism. You might as well refer to the car model a pedestrian is using.

I do understand the reasoning behind the ban on blood transfusions (at least, as JWs employ it); I studied for about five years. I understand the coffee ban less well, though. Neither is of particular concern to me.

 

[One Brow]

Ya tryin to suggest that atheism caint be it's own form of religion, dat it, eh, Dark? If so, den I givez sum rollyeyez right back atcha, eh?

Atheism can be a religion in the same sense the Utah Jazz can be a religion.

 

[Hopper]

Atheism can be a religion in the same sense the Utah Jazz can be a religion.

It's a theistic belief, aint it, Eric?

 

[One Brow]

It's a theistic belief, aint it, Eric?

Jerry Sloan is certainly a coaching God.

Oh, you mean atheism. No, it's a lack of theistic belief. Is apathy a political position?

 

[Hopper]

Looky here (from Webster's):

"Main Entry: re·li·gion 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."

Well, there ya have it, then, I spect.