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The NFL Is Trying To Kill Itself

7StraightIsGreat

7StraightIsGreat

Well-Known Member
So it's official, the players have filed an injunction to decertify the NFL Union and take the NFL owners to court. I guess it will be a month before a court even rules on the players injunction and it sounds like everything that will go on after that will be a long and drawn out process as they fight it out in the courts. Congrats to the NFL and it's players. You had the most popular sport in America and you just let the only thing that could really threaten that happen.

At least college football will be open for business this fall.....
 
I don't think the NFL is trying to kill itself.

I think humans are just being *gasp* humans.

Owners want the best deal.
And players want the best deal.

100 % of the world's population would be in lockout right now had they been placed in the same position of these people.

Both want the best deal possible. Who am I to bash them for that? For me, half a million would be sweet. But if I was an NFL player?

In my world, fighting for thousands is worth a lot. For pro athletes and owners, millions/billions is like our thousands.

Also, typically players are the ones bashed when sports have lockouts. In many aspects, I support the players union in this one. Extending the NFL season another few games is downright suicide. If anything, a few games should be eliminated. Come playoffs, hardly any players are left standing let alone playing well. We should be seeking the health of these athletes first.
 
The Thriller said:
I don't think the NFL is trying to kill itself.

I think humans are just being *gasp* humans.

Owners want the best deal.
And players want the best deal.

100 % of the world's population would be in lockout right now had they been placed in the same position of these people.

Both want the best deal possible. Who am I to bash them for that? For me, half a million would be sweet. But if I was an NFL player?

In my world, fighting for thousands is worth a lot. For pro athletes and owners, millions/billions is like our thousands.

Also, typically players are the ones bashed when sports have lockouts. In many aspects, I support the players union in this one. Extending the NFL season another few games is downright suicide. If anything, a few games should be eliminated. Come playoffs, hardly any players are left standing let alone playing well. We should be seeking the health of these athletes first.
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The NFL took 18 games off of the table. They were actually giving the players more than I thought they would offer. The players still De-certified. The owner's also were extending health benefit's to retired players and they already do what they can for current player's. The player's do not want to give up any of their money. Don't let it fool you this is entirely about money for both sides. The owner's have never really said it's not about money for them, the player's are the ones trying to deflect and say it's about other things. But when push came to shove and they got nearly everything they wanted except a bit of the money they still didn't budge. The owner's are going to hold out till the player's cave at this point.

PS I fully expect the NBA lockout to exceed the NFL one in both time away and impact on the game.
 
Surely said:
Nothing like watching billionaires fight with millionaires while people who live in the "real" world struggle to make ends meet.
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GREAT post. This is the exact point I was trying to make and I think it's what some are overlooking. Regardless of what issues may face the NFL owners and players, from a fan's point of view it still boils down to billionaires fighting with millionaires. How can any of us relate to that? How can we not help but feel more and more jaded the longer this drags out?

Add to the fact that this would have never happened under Tagliabue and Gene Upshaw's time. Those two got stuff done and the league grew more than ever because of it. This is a huge blackmark on the Goodell/Smith era.
 
Surely said:
Nothing like watching billionaires fight with millionaires while people who live in the "real" world struggle to make ends meet.
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This.

If they lock out long enough they will learn another law of economics: the substitution effect. Pretty much all fans will find some substitute, after all it is just entertainment. And some percent of fans will leave the sport entirely. Yes when all is said and done fans will return, but the owners and players are just hurting their position with the fans. The thing that irks me is that the fans are the one paying for all of it. The owners do not magically create money as a result of some NBA-voodoo-spell, using the players like blood in an evil rite. The money comes from us. And in most industries the customer-base is the most important thing. Amazon.com calls it customer obsession and they truly live by that (I worked there for 5 years...it is really the center of everything). The NBA and other professional sports are anything but customer-based. They see that they can add teams and games to rake in more money, diluting the quality of the product substantially and the money just keeps coming in.

It would be refreshing if they had a working strike in which they played under some temporary agreement while they negotiated to show they actually care at least a tiny bit about the people earning 1/100th of an average player salary who dip into their limited monthly budgets so millionaire cry-baby's can buy another Escalade for the nanny.
 
Man, I don't think I've ever agreed with what Chad (Ochocinco) Johnson has had to say, but he really seems to get it right this time:

"I don't have time to be arguing. With the owners and us as millionaires, there shouldn't even be an argument," Ochocinco told WSVN-TV. "It disgusts me, it's really an unfortunate situation. But it is what it is. I am on the fans' side. I want football, but to be focused on an argument over revenue is silly. We got people out here struggling, and there's no reason a deal shouldn't have gotten done."
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The NFL owners lost a huge hole card in a court ruling last week when they lost the 4 billion in rights fees from the networks. The original deal was the networks had to pay the owners whether there was football played or not. They planned on using that money while they sweated through the lockout.

Without that money my guess is they look to settle and we'll see football next season.
 
Yet all us middle class people will spend our money so the billionaires and millionaires can have a pissing contest. This thing will get settled because $$$$ is involved and the fans will always come back because we are the real suckers in this cycle of greed. Seriously, if the fans would just stop showing up and spending their money both the owners and players would settle it sooner. The problem is the first group to cave are the fans. Fans can complain and moan all they want but the owners and players think so little of the fans they will hold out until both get their way regardless how it impacts fans.
 
Obviously I'm simplifying this greatly but comparatively the NFL players out of all sports have it the worst so I want to be on their side but they also need to realize the economy and give a little while trying to mostly win for the lower tier players and retired players.
With salaries not being guaranteed the lower end of the pay scale should be higher and the high end guys really need to give up some, not saying it's realistic but just what is right.
 
cowhide said:
Yet all us middle class people will spend our money so the billionaires and millionaires can have a pissing contest. This thing will get settled because $$$$ is involved and the fans will always come back because we are the real suckers in this cycle of greed. Seriously, if the fans would just stop showing up and spending their money both the owners and players would settle it sooner. The problem is the first group to cave are the fans. Fans can complain and moan all they want but the owners and players think so little of the fans they will hold out until both get their way regardless how it impacts fans.
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How many people have and will continue to shell out hundreds of dollars a year for Sunday Ticket? Or thousands of dollars for season tickets? If the fan takes that $ away, would it make a difference?
 
Surely said:
Nothing like watching billionaires fight with millionaires while people who live in the "real" world struggle to make ends meet.
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You know that you're both the disease and the cure?

Stop buying their crap and stop watching their games.

I love it when Americans bitch about how "terrible" it is to make ends meet and bitch about pro athletes while spending $100 on a single jersey, paying extra to watch them on tv, paying hundreds of dollars for tickets, etc.

Here's the truth, MOST Americans who are "struggling" to make ends meet are still at least 10x better off than most of the world. Americans are struggling to make ends meet while still owning multiple cars, cell phones, video games, plasmas, new brand name clothes, running the AC/Heater nonstop, and multiple computers.
Americans bitch and complain while owning 4,000 square feet of house. They moan when they only have 4 bathrooms.

Americans truly need to get out of their own country and see how the rest of the world is.
 
The Thriller said:
You know that you're both the disease and the cure?

Stop buying their crap and stop watching their games.

I love it when Americans bitch about how "terrible" it is to make ends meet and bitch about pro athletes while spending $100 on a single jersey, paying extra to watch them on tv, paying hundreds of dollars for tickets, etc.

Here's the truth, MOST Americans who are "struggling" to make ends meet are still at least 10x better off than most of the world. Americans are struggling to make ends meet while still owning multiple cars, cell phones, video games, plasmas, new brand name clothes, running the AC/Heater nonstop, and multiple computers.
Americans bitch and complain while owning 4,000 square feet of house. They moan when they only have 4 bathrooms.

Americans truly need to get out of their own country and see how the rest of the world is.
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This might sound weird, but I was watching House Hunters on TV a few weeks ago and it was just crazy, they showed a few American families and these crazy old bitches were complaining because the kitchen ( 6,000 sq ft 2.5 million dollar house) didn't have the counter space they wanted, they just complained and complained and bitched about everything, and all three houses they looked at were unreal nice.

Anyway, they also have an international edition of that show (my wife makes me watch it, haha) and the families from the UK and Europe, who were spending a lot more money, were just thrilled with everything and the homes they were looking at were more expensive, but complete **** compared to the US homes.

Anyway, just kind of made me embarrassed, most Americans just have effin clue.
 
Nothing like watching middle-class Americans argue about upper-class Americans while people who live in the "real" world struggle to make ends meet.
 
I'm with the players on this one. They are willing to sign the deal that's been in place for the past 5 years or so. The owners have done nothing to convince me that the deal is such a gain for the players that it has to be worked out. The NBA is different, the players have too much control. But NFL players already had the short end of the proverbial stick, and the owners want more?
 
Nate505 said:
I'm with the players on this one. They are willing to sign the deal that's been in place for the past 5 years or so. The owners have done nothing to convince me that the deal is such a gain for the players that it has to be worked out. The NBA is different, the players have too much control. But NFL players already had the short end of the proverbial stick, and the owners want more?
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Of course the players want to sign it. It was a steal of a deal for them when they signed it. They have no financial risk and they take 60% of the profit. Who wouldn't want a job like that? If the fans stop coming what do the player's care? They still get paid. If the stadium is falling apart and needs fixed, replaced or upgraded what do the player's care? They still get paid. If the price of flying the teams around more than doubles, what do the player's care? They still get paid.

The player's are every bit if not more at fault for this than the owner's. The owner's made this happen a year earlier but it would have happened next year when the deal really ran out anyway. And it's right now that the economy is killing the bottom line of all businesses including sports franchises.

I'm was not really on either side. But the owner's showed a legitimate effort to get a deal done and the player's rejected it. The leader of the player's union has been telling his player's that there was a 95% chance of a lockout since before the season (according to some of the players). That says to me that he had no intention of considering any offer that required the players to make concessions.
 
gregbroncs said:
Of course the players want to sign it. It was a steal of a deal for them when they signed it. They have no financial risk and they take 60% of the profit. Who wouldn't want a job like that? If the fans stop coming what do the player's care? They still get paid. If the stadium is falling apart and needs fixed, replaced or upgraded what do the player's care? They still get paid. If the price of flying the teams around more than doubles, what do the player's care? They still get paid.

The player's are every bit if not more at fault for this than the owner's. The owner's made this happen a year earlier but it would have happened next year when the deal really ran out anyway. And it's right now that the economy is killing the bottom line of all businesses including sports franchises.

I'm was not really on either side. But the owner's showed a legitimate effort to get a deal done and the player's rejected it. The leader of the player's union has been telling his player's that there was a 95% chance of a lockout since before the season (according to some of the players). That says to me that he had no intention of considering any offer that required the players to make concessions.
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They may not take any direct financial risk, but they risk their bodies in ways I would never consider. They are more than employees, they are the product and thus deserve a lot of the revenue. And this is one of the most riskless investments you can ask for. Networks are tripping over themselves to offer billions to sign NFL contracts, and the NFL shares revenues. And on top of that, the owners pretty much guilt trip the taxpayer into financing stadiums, the one legit risk they could undertake. The NFL has not declined in popularity or profitability with the old contract, and frankly, the owners had no intention of offering concessions either. Other than make outlandish demands like an 18 game season then take it off the table and act like i was a concession. They were ready to just go right to a lockout until it was ruled they can't receive the TV payments after locking the players out.
 
I side with the owners. They are the ones taking all the financial risks, building/upkeeping stadiums and trying to further the brand of their franchise. Players get paid whether tickets are being sold or not.

Right now the rallying cry for players is that they put their long-term health on the line to play the game. If it's not worth the physical risk for some players, they should think of another line of work. I do think the NFL owes it to them to upgrade the type of healthcare and benefits they recieve during/after their careers but these guys know the risks well before they ever make it into the NFL.
 
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