The Niang Dilemma

[LogGrad98]

Georges was pretty spectacular (relative to expectations personally) this year in the regular season. I'm not a huge fan, but his ability to shoot and make the right decisions on offense and defense really does make the entire team better when he's on the court. He even really stepped it up on individual defense in a significant way.

He was OK in the Memphis series. He hit his shots which is his most important role at the end of the day, but he was complete *** in the Clippers series, to a degree that was super disappointing. Not that I expected magic, but the poor decision making was unexpected.

Should Utah re-sign him and what is your price limit? Or should Utah just look to move on and develop/sign someone else in the 9th man role who maybe has more athleticism?

I would expect his market to be somewhere in the 3-4 million dollar range per year.

He was unplayable in the playoffs. Couldn't hit the 3 and disappeared on defense. We need to get our heads out of the regular season and focus entirely on building a playoff contender. He will command more money than he is worth. Let him walk. Sign him if he comes at a steep discount. Anything even close to 10 mil just let him go

 

[Miggs]

To me, we gotta try to flip Favors for something. UA needs to take his spot or we need to find another C at the vet minimum or close to it for depth. There usually tends to be a lot of dudes to find like that. Compared to other guys we’ve talked about losing or trading (ie, Conley, Bogey), his value is the least relative to his salary IMO, ESPECIALLY since we drafted UA and finding a UFA on the super cheap to replicate what he brings is not something super tough to do, as compared to finding a replacement for Mike or Bojan.

This needs to be a move we do sooner rather than later.

 

[LogGrad98]

Like I noted, relative to expectations. If you asked most people prior to season they'd say Niang is a traffic cone and absolutely cant guard anyone.

If you'd ask anyone after the playoffs they'd say he's a traffic cone and absolutely cant guard anyone AND he can't shoot for ****.

Maybe for 1-2 mil, otherwise let him walk.

 

[LogGrad98]

To me, we gotta try to flip Favors for something. UA needs to take his spot or we need to find another C at the vet minimum or close to it for depth. There usually tends to be a lot of dudes to find like that. Compared to other guys we’ve talked about losing or trading (ie, Conley, Bogey), his value is the least relative to his salary IMO, ESPECIALLY since we drafted UA and finding a UFA on the super cheap to replicate what he brings is not something super tough to do, as compared to finding a replacement for Mike or Bojan.

This needs to be a move we do sooner rather than later.

Agreed. The FO won't do it. Sunk cost and loyalty factor.

 

[Miggs]

After that, I think I’d lean toward trying to trade Clarkson. His value is at an all-time high. It might be possible to trade him for a legit 3 and D 3/4.

 

[LogGrad98]

After that, I think I’d lean toward trying to trade Clarkson. His value is at an all-time high. It might be possible to trade him for a legit 3 and D 3/4.

Clarkson, favors, niang s&t for Grant or something similar? Might be possible.

 

[Miggs]

Clarkson, favors, niang s&t for Grant or something similar? Might be possible.

I don’t see why Detroit would trade Grant. It’s like Houston trading Wood. Those are their only legit young pieces. It just doesn’t make sense if you’re trying to build a young core. We’d have to throw in a 1st. Maybe two 1sts to get that done.

 

[Miggs]

Conley
Mitchell-Ingles
O’Neale-Bogey
Grant
Gobert

That’s a sexy seven. If we did that and then signed someone like Rudy Gay or Aminu (think there’s a lot of upside there on the super cheap) using our MLE/BAE (not sure what we have), we’d have a legit 8. We’d have to also get a real backup pg on the cheap.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you'd ask anyone after the playoffs they'd say he's a traffic cone and absolutely cant guard anyone AND he can't shoot for ****.

Maybe for 1-2 mil, otherwise let him walk.

I really dont think his defense was the issue in the Clippers series, or even the shooting. It was more that he let the pressure of missed shots influence his decision making ability.

Which to me is why this is a dilemma. I think Niang could and will be better than that next year if put in the same situation. But at the same time, I'd be lying if that series didnt create more doubt than what previously existed.

 

[LogGrad98]

I don’t see why Detroit would trade Grant. It’s like Houston trading Wood. Those are their only legit young pieces. It just doesn’t make sense if you’re trying to build a young core. We’d have to throw in a 1st. Maybe two 1sts to get that done.

His was just the first name that came to mind, hence the "similar" piece. But I'd love to find a way to get grant and frankly we should throw everything we can at him if that door were in the slightest way open. Replace Conley with Grant this season and we are cruising to the finals.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

He was unplayable in the playoffs. Couldn't hit the 3 and disappeared on defense. We need to get our heads out of the regular season and focus entirely on building a playoff contender. He will command more money than he is worth. Let him walk. Sign him if he comes at a steep discount. Anything even close to 10 mil just let him go

Oh man, he wasnt coming close to 10 million even before the playoffs. Niang will cap off at around 5 million per year at most, but I think will be more like 3 million.

 

[Miggs]

If we traded two 1sts, Clarkson and Favors, I’d do that deal for Grant. I don’t think Detroit would though.

 

[LogGrad98]

I really dont think his defense was the issue in the Clippers series, or even the shooting. It was more that he let the pressure of missed shots influence his decision making ability.

Which to me is why this is a dilemma. I think Niang could and will be better than that next year if put in the same situation. But at the same time, I'd be lying if that series didnt create more doubt than what previously existed.

We don't need players that melt during the playoffs. We need to find players with the stones to step up. That obviously isn't Niang. Or damn near anyone else on our team. The entire bench, outside of Clarkson, played scared and timid in that late series.

And Niang's defense was absolutely atrocious. He couldn't remotely stay with his end-of-the-bench counterparts.

In that series it was their scrubs stepping up and our scrubs playing scared.

 

[slc]

3 million is still more money than most people make in a lifetime
Take the money Georges and be happy

 

[LogGrad98]

If we traded two 1sts, Clarkson and Favors, I’d do that deal for Grant. I don’t think Detroit would though.

Ya likely not. Would they if we could S&T Conley with it? Give them a veteran presence to help with the rebuild.

Of course Conley wouldn't agree to that. Just a thought.

 

[Miggs]

Aminu exercised his option next year so he’s not doable.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We don't need players that melt during the playoffs. We need to find players with the stones to step up. That obviously isn't Niang. Or damn near anyone else on our team. The entire bench, outside of Clarkson, played scared and timid in that late series.

And Niang's defense was absolutely atrocious. He couldn't remotely stay with his end-of-the-bench counterparts.

In that series it was their scrubs stepping up and our scrubs playing scared.

I just see this thinking as being too reactionary. Also, you don't have to play Niang in the playoffs, even if you sign him in the 3-5 million dollar range. It's just hard to lose a guy who had that much positive impact throughout the year.

We are talking about a guy who had a +8 points per 100 impact with his on/off numbers for the regular season, and even with a bad playoff series like teh Clippers, he was still only -0.8 points per 100 with him on.

 

[LogGrad98]

I just see this thinking as being too reactionary. Also, you don't have to play Niang in the playoffs, even if you sign him in the 3-5 million dollar range. It's just hard to lose a guy who had that much positive impact throughout the year.

We are talking about a guy who had a +8 points per 100 impact with his on/off numbers for the regular season, and even with a bad playoff series like teh Clippers, he was still only -0.8 points per 100 with him on.

All I'm saying is it isn't that hard to find end of bench players with only a minor negative impact in the playoffs and I would rather roll the dice than overpay even a bit for one that we just watched get played off the floor. He isn't nearly athletic enough to hang. We need to focus on upping our game athletically and if we have to pay really any more for a Niang-type player than we did last season then he can walk.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

All I'm saying is it isn't that hard to find end of bench players with only a minor negative impact in the playoffs and I would rather roll the dice than overpay even a bit for one that we just watched get played off the floor. He isn't nearly athletic enough to hang. We need to focus on upping our game athletically and if we have to pay really any more for a Niang-type player than we did last season then he can walk.

Sure, but Oni is way more athletic than almost anyone on the roster, but he's clearly worse than playing Niang, even in a series that needed athletic ability. Niang has made a lot of improvements so I just have a harder time saying "**** him he's done improving" when he has come so far and is clearly a guy who makes others better on both ends with his decision making.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just see this thinking as being too reactionary. Also, you don't have to play Niang in the playoffs, even if you sign him in the 3-5 million dollar range. It's just hard to lose a guy who had that much positive impact throughout the year.

We are talking about a guy who had a +8 points per 100 impact with his on/off numbers for the regular season, and even with a bad playoff series like teh Clippers, he was still only -0.8 points per 100 with him on.

You have to take the on/off with a little grain of salt though... he plays 75% of his minutes with Rudy.

He's a fine player. He may not be the problem in the playoffs but he also isn't a great solution. If his production comes at the side cost of not finding/developing/grooming the guy that is potential solution then that is the real problem.