The Niang Dilemma

[l Abach l]

All I know is that I saw Niang sub into the clippers series and threw 2 turnovers, f up a defensive assignment leading to an easy layup and miss the rim completely on a 3 point shot in the span of 2 minutes. Again... time to move on to players who will contribute in the postseason. Who gives a flying **** about the regular season if we're unable to hold onto home court advantage?

 

[LogGrad98]

Sure, but Oni is way more athletic than almost anyone on the roster, but he's clearly worse than playing Niang, even in a series that needed athletic ability. Niang has made a lot of improvements so I just have a harder time saying "**** him he's done improving" when he has come so far and is clearly a guy who makes others better on both ends with his decision making.

When did I say anything about Oni. Oni is better athletically, but just not an NBA-level player realistically.

I want to see us re-tool our bench this off-season among other moves. We were touted as having a deep bench during the regular season but then that was exposed badly during the playoffs.

Again, we need to get our brains out of focusing purely on regular season success, and start looking at what it takes to build a team that can compete in the playoffs. Because obviously our bench is enough to get us some wins during the regular season, but when the pressure is on they obviously cannot hang with benches that are built better for a playoff run, with better athleticism, and more upside, even if their floor might be a little lower. During the playoffs it's all about the ceiling, not as much about the floor, especially for the bench.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

When did I say anything about Oni. Oni is better athletically, but just not an NBA-level player realistically.

I want to see us re-tool our bench this off-season among other moves. We were touted as having a deep bench during the regular season but then that was exposed badly during the playoffs.

Again, we need to get our brains out of focusing purely on regular season success, and start looking at what it takes to build a team that can compete in the playoffs. Because obviously our bench is enough to get us some wins during the regular season, but when the pressure is on they obviously cannot hang with benches that are built better for a playoff run, with better athleticism, and more upside, even if their floor might be a little lower. During the playoffs it's all about the ceiling, not as much about the floor, especially for the bench.

Didnt mean to make it seem that way, just an example to illustrate that athleticism can't be the primary decision maker.

 

[NUMBERICA]

To me, we gotta try to flip Favors for something.

I think the best we can hope for is flipping Favors for nothing.

 

[LogGrad98]

Didnt mean to make it seem that way, just an example to illustrate that athleticism can't be the primary decision maker.

Yeah but it needs to be a much bigger piece of it than it has been. It's almost like the jazz pride themselves on showing how they can take an unathletic borderline player and make him mildly effective as a bench player so they can tout their "development" without really considering if it translates to playoff success. I'd rather they had given brantley Niang's minutes all this time as his athleticism could have really payed off for us in the playoffs. It feels like they are convinced that slow and steady wins the race when really you need to be able to sprint like mad to win in the playoffs.

 

[l Abach l]

If Niang came back next season 15 lbs lighter maybe i'd be interested.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Clarkson, favors, niang s&t for Grant or something similar? Might be possible.

I don’t see why Detroit would trade Grant. It’s like Houston trading Wood. Those are their only legit young pieces. It just doesn’t make sense if you’re trying to build a young core. We’d have to throw in a 1st. Maybe two 1sts to get that done.

Conley
Mitchell-Ingles
O’Neale-Bogey
Grant
Gobert

That’s a sexy seven. If we did that and then signed someone like Rudy Gay or Aminu (think there’s a lot of upside there on the super cheap) using our MLE/BAE (not sure what we have), we’d have a legit 8. We’d have to also get a real backup pg on the cheap.

His was just the first name that came to mind, hence the "similar" piece. But I'd love to find a way to get grant and frankly we should throw everything we can at him if that door were in the slightest way open. Replace Conley with Grant this season and we are cruising to the finals.

If we traded two 1sts, Clarkson and Favors, I’d do that deal for Grant. I don’t think Detroit would though.

Ya likely not. Would they if we could S&T Conley with it? Give them a veteran presence to help with the rebuild.

Of course Conley wouldn't agree to that. Just a thought.

Here is my post on this from another thread:

I have seen the idea of sign-and-trading Mike Conley thrown around so I wanted to make a thread to clear some things up about it.

We can most definitely sign-and-trade Conley but there are some restrictions and limitations.

- The expected luxury tax for 2021-22 is 136.6M

- Without Conley our salary’s are at 130.4M

- The luxury tax apron is 4M over the luxury tax cap

- In essence the luxury tax apron for 2021-22 is 140.6M

We can not be over the luxury tax apron after a sign-and-trade. So that obviously limits the amount of salary we could take back in a deal which would be 10.2M at max.

Now you can’t add a player with Conley in a sign-and-trade but you can do simultaneous deals at the same time but both have to work within the cap.

For example, we could agree to trade Conley, Bogdanovic (or Clarkson/Favors) and pick 30 to the Pistons for Jerami Grant and Mason Plumlee. They would have to be two separate transactions happening simultaneously though.

As long as the Pistons have enough cap space to absorb Conley’s salary without giving back more than 10.2M. Plumlee is right at 8M so it works for both sides.

Conley would be signed and traded to the Pistons for Mason Plumlee. Then simultaneously we would then send Bogdanovic (or Clarkson/Favors) and 30 to the Pistons for Grant.

I am really thinking outside of the box here but these are some real possibilities if the front office wanted to get creative.

TL/DR

We can sign-and-trade Conley but only can take back a max of 10.2M in salary in a one for one trade.

We can sign-and-trade Conley as part of a bigger deal that would be two separate deals happening simultaneously as long as both deals work under the cap by themselves.

Mitchell
Royce
Bogdanovic
Grant
Gobert

I think we are definitely a better team with that deal. Ingles would be our 6th man.

 

[LogGrad98]

Here is my post on this from another thread:



Mitchell
Royce
Bogdanovic
Grant
Gobert

I think we are definitely a better team with that deal. Ingles would be our 6th man.

That team would be the odds-on favorite to win it all this year. Pipe-dream I know but...damn.

 

[Miggs]

I think the best we can hope for is flipping Favors for nothing.

I don’t disagree. We’d be doing it for the cap space anyway.

 

[Jingled]

The problem with Niang is that I don't think he's ever going to be playable in the playoffs. I think he's just too physically limited. If he's back he'll keep his spot in the rotation as the 9th man, but I'd rather fill that spot with a wing defender, even one that can't shoot at all. Sign a wing to a vet minimum to replace him. We have plenty of shooting without him. I REALLY don't want him back.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Georges was pretty spectacular (relative to expectations personally) this year in the regular season. I'm not a huge fan, but his ability to shoot and make the right decisions on offense and defense really does make the entire team better when he's on the court. He even really stepped it up on individual defense in a significant way.

He was OK in the Memphis series. He hit his shots which is his most important role at the end of the day, but he was complete *** in the Clippers series, to a degree that was super disappointing. Not that I expected magic, but the poor decision making was unexpected.

Should Utah re-sign him and what is your price limit? Or should Utah just look to move on and develop/sign someone else in the 9th man role who maybe has more athleticism?

I would expect his market to be somewhere in the 3-4 million dollar range per year.

If they can get him back at $4 million per year on a three year deal. . . I’d probably do that. Otherwise, I focus on getting a guy with a similar skill set that’s younger and costs less.

 

[LogGrad98]

If they can get him back at $4 million per year on a three year deal. . . I’d probably do that. Otherwise, I focus on getting a guy with a similar skill set that’s younger and costs less.

For that much I'd rather role the dice on an athletic wing project with more upside. I'd rather have Mann than Niang. I'd only bring back niang for about where he is right now. We've already seen what he can do in the playoffs. He might raise our floor but does nothing to raise our ceiling.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

You’d be hard pressed to find a better 9-10th man as good as Niang

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You’d be hard pressed to find a better 9-10th man as good as Niang

The two teams playing in the western conference finals both have better 9-10th men... we are trying to be elite... Niang is fine if you have Craig or Mann or other options and if you don’t consider him to be a rotation staple... he doesn’t need to play every night.

 

[fishonjazz]

The two teams playing in the western conference finals both have better 9-10th men... we are trying to be elite... Niang is fine if you have Craig or Mann or other options and if you don’t consider him to be a rotation staple... he doesn’t need to play every night.

Name names and put up stat comparisons


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[SoberasHotRod]

Niang was sadly one of our better defenders in the regular season. He was consistant in his effort and smart about how he contested and stayed in front of his man. His postseason struggles seemed to be more mental than physical limitations (I'm not sure if that's better). I actually thought he played much better in his limited time in game 6, but I've also tried so hard to erase those memories from my mind that I could be scrambling things a bit.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

The two teams playing in the western conference finals both have better 9-10th men... we are trying to be elite... Niang is fine if you have Craig or Mann or other options and if you don’t consider him to be a rotation staple... he doesn’t need to play every night.

Those LA teams tend to attract talent for less money, no surprise there. I don’t view Craig as better than Niang. My opinion of course.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Name names and put up stat comparisons


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

I mean the clips 9th man is either Mann, Rondo, Kennard, Ibaka... that one's easy.

Suns Craig (better playoff option and if you disagree I'll fight your butt crack showing ***). they also have Galloway, Carter, Moore that all give something different. Nader is also a better playoff option but he's hurt. I just don't think Niang is good enough to be a clear... every night 9th man unless you are like Brooklyn or the Lakers that are super top heavy. The 9th and 10th men need to be specialists or super flexible pieces.

So its not just Niangs fault... its that we didn't build the depth to swap him out for a different specialist... Like Craig.

Top to bottom what Phoenix has done is awesome... they have Kaminsky, Moore, Carter all gathering dust but they are all playable options... we were down to thinking should we play Forrest? They just have NBA players all the way down the roster.

 

[Jingled]

Tony Jones on Spence Checketts show today said he doesn't think Georges is back with the Jazz next year.

 

[homeytennis]

Tony Jones on Spence Checketts show today said he doesn't think Georges is back with the Jazz next year.

That's almost a no-brainer.