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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

I just think the definition of athleticism in basketball peoples minds is skewed towards very specific traits. Reaction time is athleticism. Lateral movement is athleticism. Balance is athleticism.
If you compare Sexton and Jrue, its pretty easy to see how much more technique and IQ/instincts/experience matter than athleticism.

Sexton probably beats Jrue in most aspects of athleticism, isnt drastically smaller nor does he lack in effort.. but there is a massive difference in their defensive prowess.
 
Frankly effort and desire are at least 50% of elite defense. Look at Mitchell. When he was drafted one of his top strengths was defense, and he was touted as a defensive stopper at the next level and he is easily one of the worst defenders we've seen at his position in the last decade. It's because he has chosen not to play defense. And he's literally said as much. There have been plenty of good to great defense with average athleticism. The thing people underestimate is simply the fact that average athleticism in the NBA is still "elite" compared to the general population. You don't have to be the greatest athlete in the room to be a good or great defender. Bruce Bowen was never an elite athlete, by NBA standards, yet he was the prototypical 3 & D guard, setting the standard for it.
 
Hardy not keeping AJ on staff was a mistake. He does a good job with bigs. Moment he left Kessler development stopped. Rookie Lively looks good already.
It was a mistake but I can't really blame Hardy since he didn't want to constantly be looking over his shoulder knowing that management also viewed him as a head coaching candidate.
 
Will Kessler ever get to the level as Dallas’s two centers, Gafford or Lively? It’s insane how much we’ve invested in that position over the years to have so little.

Having said that, we freaking need to draft athletes. Dallas has wave after wave of athletes. Same with Minnesota. And Boston. We have small volume shooting guards. We need more athletes. At the very least we need some guys that can defend, run, jump, and tear down the rim.
He was at that level last year so I definitely think he can get back there.
 
Are we going to see the return of youngjefe tonight or will we have to wait until some point in the WCF?
It all depends on if the wolves win. If they win then we know that he won't have the balls to show his face until the wolves lose a game in the conference finals.
 
When I watch Boston I don't see a ton of athletes.

Jazz have Lauri (great size combined with crazy hops), Sexton (crazy speed combined with crazy hops), Collins (dunk contest level jumper), Hendricks (length, speed, good jumper), keyonte (good athleticism)

Celtics have brown and tatum. Derrick White is nothing to write home about athletically. Horford? Lol. Holiday? Nope. Payton Pritchard? Nope. Sam houser? Luke kornet?


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I don’t know about this. I see a lot of good athletes with these teams while I saw a lot of crap on the Jazz. Sure is Holiday a prime Baron Davis or Westbrook level athlete? I guess not. But he looks better than anything on the Jazz, especially with size. I look at these other teams in the playoffs and they have big guards and athletic wings to spare. I can hardly keep track of Dallas’s wings as they all can run, jump, defend, and shoot the hell out of the ball. We just have so much work to do.
 
Frankly effort and desire are at least 50% of elite defense. Look at Mitchell. When he was drafted one of his top strengths was defense, and he was touted as a defensive stopper at the next level and he is easily one of the worst defenders we've seen at his position in the last decade. It's because he has chosen not to play defense. And he's literally said as much. There have been plenty of good to great defense with average athleticism. The thing people underestimate is simply the fact that average athleticism in the NBA is still "elite" compared to the general population. You don't have to be the greatest athlete in the room to be a good or great defender. Bruce Bowen was never an elite athlete, by NBA standards, yet he was the prototypical 3 & D guard, setting the standard for it.
Yep. Defense is mostly about effort and desire. There are so many elite athletes in the league that are mediocre defenders while there are a decent amount of limited athletes that are solid defenders because they put in the effort on that end. The transformation of Brook Lopez over his career has been one of the more impressive things because he was a mediocre defender the first part of his career when he was more of a primary scoring option. He was written off as a bad defender because he had heavy feet when we now know it was all about effort. He goes to the bucks where he is no longer relied on as a key scorer and his focus changes to defense and he turns into a beast on that end.
 
Frankly effort and desire are at least 50% of elite defense. Look at Mitchell. When he was drafted one of his top strengths was defense, and he was touted as a defensive stopper at the next level and he is easily one of the worst defenders we've seen at his position in the last decade. It's because he has chosen not to play defense. And he's literally said as much. There have been plenty of good to great defense with average athleticism. The thing people underestimate is simply the fact that average athleticism in the NBA is still "elite" compared to the general population. You don't have to be the greatest athlete in the room to be a good or great defender. Bruce Bowen was never an elite athlete, by NBA standards, yet he was the prototypical 3 & D guard, setting the standard for it.
This is what frustrates me about the Snyder era. We continually blame the roster and the defenders (or lack thereof) on it. I have beef with DL but if you were to weight the actual problems, the system structure and the conditioning of “just let Rudy do it” was the real downfall. Changing that would have made the difference.
 
I don’t know about this. I see a lot of good athletes with these teams while I saw a lot of crap on the Jazz. Sure is Holiday a prime Baron Davis or Westbrook level athlete? I guess not. But he looks better than anything on the Jazz, especially with size. I look at these other teams in the playoffs and they have big guards and athletic wings to spare. I can hardly keep track of Dallas’s wings as they all can run, jump, defend, and shoot the hell out of the ball. We just have so much work to do.
We have a ton of work to do. This is a really flawed roster right now and it starts with our lack of long athletic wings that can switch nonstop and swarm teams defensively. The good news is that we have plenty of picks over the next few years to transform this roster. This draft alone could transform the roster with the amount of long wings that is has.
 
Yeah I would say you're pretty wrong.

Holiday and White are two of the best defensive players in the NBA. You have to be athletic to have that distinction. Might not be flashy athleticism, but they are athletic.
This old argument. I will say it again. When I talk about athleticism IM talking about jumping ability and speed primarily. Some people think fat golfers are athletic because they can swing a golf club with precision. Some people think walker kessler is a great nba athlete. That isn't how i view athleticism in the nba.
And thriller said "tear down the rim" right in his post. Do you often times see holiday tear down the rim?

So basically you agree with me that holiday isn't super fast or a great leaper. Which is what im referring to.
 
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I just think the definition of athleticism in basketball peoples minds is skewed towards very specific traits. Reaction time is athleticism. Lateral movement is athleticism. Balance is athleticism.
none of those things get a dude tearing down the rim though like was referenced in the post I quoted. Tearing down the rim is the type of athleticism being discussed here.
 
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It was a mistake but I can't really blame Hardy since he didn't want to constantly be looking over his shoulder knowing that management also viewed him as a head coaching candidate.
I don't buy this kind of thinking. I mean, I know it's a popular way of looking at it, but I think this is the kind of thinking for beta folks. If you are going to be an NBA head coach, you need to have big *** balls. You can't put what is better for the team behind your insecurity. If that is the way Hardy thinks, he should go sell insurance.
 
This is what frustrates me about the Snyder era. We continually blame the roster and the defenders (or lack thereof) on it. I have beef with DL but if you were to weight the actual problems, the system structure and the conditioning of “just let Rudy do it” was the real downfall. Changing that would have made the difference.
Hell if Donovan could have been bothered to give a single **** about playing any defense at all then we likely get past the clippers at least one year in the mix and then who knows what. The system was certainly proven to be ****, but the lack of defensive ability and desire was the nail in the coffin.
 
Looks like a clean strip to me. I think pacers win this challenge

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I really want the knicks to win but I do think that indiana has a better chance at giving boston some trouble.
 
I don't think either team will give Boston any trouble.

Knicks are out of gas and crippled. Pacers are fun, but they aren't that good.
ya i agree.
 
So did the mavs shamelessly tank at the end of last season in order to keep their pick which ended up being lively?
 
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