The Official "Ask A Mormon" Thread

[colton]

Two of the three had long periods where they stated that they never physically saw the plates. That's what I'm telling you.

I disagree with this statement, but getting into a discussion like that isn't really the point of this thread so you're free to PM me or start a new thread if you like. (Or discuss this with someone else in this thread, I suppose, as you were doing.)

 

[CONAN]

No, you're reading it the way you want to read it. Two of the three had long periods where they stated that they never physically saw the plates. That's what I'm telling you.

No, you just have a beef with the Church and are seeing things the way you want to see it. They claimed they saw the plates with spiritual eyes. That is not a denial. And again, you go to great lengths to discredit these guys but yet you want to cherrypick statements. Good luck with that.

 

[sirkickyass]

I disagree with this statement, but getting into a discussion like that isn't really the point of this thread so you're free to PM me or start a new thread if you like. (Or discuss this with someone else in this thread, I suppose, as you were doing.)

Not certain this is a discussion you want to have in public anyway. It didn't turn out well for Grant Palmer.

 

[sirkickyass]

No, you just have a beef with the Church and are seeing things the way you want to see it. They claimed they saw the plates with spiritual eyes. That is not a denial. And again, you go to great lengths to discredit these guys but yet you want to cherrypick statements. Good luck with that.

What is my beef with the church exactly?

I'm going to ask you, in all honesty, who do you think has researched this specific issue more between the two of us?

 

[colton]

I'm an active Mormon but there are two questions/issues I struggle with. No person has been able to give me a sufficient answer on these. So I figure Jazzfanz is my last resort

1. Why did Joseph Smith allow blacks in the Priesthood only to have Brigham Young ban them around 1848?

Great question, and we probably won't know until we can ask him personally. My personal answer--because Young was just plain wrong, and he'll have to answer for the hurt that came because of that. But I could be wrong.

2. Why did the church continue Plural marriage even after the "revelation" of the 1890 Manifesto?

Great question. This is completely glossed over in the usual church history. My opinion is that the church was basically trying to have its cake and eat it, too. That is, they stopped plural marriages *in the US*, because they wanted statehood. But they hadn't yet completely abandoned the practice in totality, and so Pres. Woodruff allowed some plural marriages to take place in Mexico and other places. Or at least, there's some evidence that he did. As you probably know (but most members don't), it wasn't until the "second manifesto" in 1904 that the church really got serious about the crackdown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Manifesto

 

[sirkickyass]

I'm an active Mormon but there are two questions/issues I struggle with. No person has been able to give me a sufficient answer on these. So I figure Jazzfanz is my last resort

1. Why did Joseph Smith allow blacks in the Priesthood only to have Brigham Young ban them around 1848?

The party line you'll get will be something in the neighborhood of "Brigham Young was a flawed man and the reception of revelation comes through a flawed vessel" and/or "Blacks were deserving of the priesthood beginning in 1978, and some exceptional blacks such as Elijah Abel were deserving before then."

Personally, my view is that Brigham Young was something of a 19th Century David Miscaivage and did some weird things.

2. Why did the church continue Plural marriage even after the "revelation" of the 1890 Manifesto?

Because the Revelation was political rather than spiritual. I'm not certain anyone really questions this.

 

[sirkickyass]

Great question. This is completely glossed over in the usual church history. My opinion is that the church was basically trying to have its cake and eat it, too. That is, they stopped plural marriages *in the US*, because they wanted statehood. But they hadn't yet completely abandoned the practice in totality, and so Pres. Woodruff allowed some plural marriages to take place in Mexico and other places. Or at least, there's some evidence that he did. As you probably know (but most members don't), it wasn't until the "second manifesto" in 1904 that the church really got serious about the crackdown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Manifesto

There is even more evidence that there were many plural marriages long after the 1904 manifesto, at least into the 1920s.

The scars of the LDS' history of having "hush hush" plural marriages that they performed but wouldn't acknowledge lingered for a long time. Mark Hofmann, for example, started seriously delving into church records in order to find evidence that his grandparents had been married in such a fashion after the manifesto. He found it, and remarkably, he didn't forge the evidence.

 

[The Midnight]

Does my answer change your response?

I'm a freethinker.

Yes it does, because an experience of the Holy Spirit can change how you view the evidence.

I don't think I can explain it in words, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[sirkickyass]

Yes it does, because an experience of the Holy Spirit can change how you view the evidence.

I don't think I can explain it in words, so I'll just leave it at that.

I'll tell you that One Brow has been a believer of religion in the past and as such I can assume he has had experiences of the Holy Spirit.

I'm in the same boat. These days I get my elevation fix from watching Ru Paul's Drag Race.

 

[The Midnight]

I'll tell you that One Brow has been a believer of religion in the past and as such I can assume he has had experiences of the Holy Spirit.

I'm in the same boat. These days I get my elevation fix from watching Ru Paul's Drag Race.

Can you really assume that though? I know of people who have strong faith, but have not yet experienced the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bronco70]

The party line you'll get will be something in the neighborhood of "Brigham Young was a flawed man and the reception of revelation comes through a flawed vessel"...

If by "flawed" they mean pretty weird and very racist, then I guess it's an accurate appraisal.

I'm an active mormon, but Brother Brigham baffles me.

 

[The Thriller]

Mormons believe in other records being discovered... Records, I'm assuming of Christ or of Christian believing people's, right? Or what? Could it also be referring to books like the apocrypha? Gnostic texts? Stuff that Mormons actually use(such as conference talks?)

The world is much older than thousands of years old. So what happened to the Dino's and continents? Wasn't the world innocent and in a state of peace/immortality before the fall? So what happened to the Dino's? When Adam and Eve were expelled, did the continents begin to break apart? Or could the whole 7 day thing just be one large symbol?

Could Noah's ark also be a symbol just like the epic of Gilgamesh or the hundreds of other flood stories out there?

Mormons believe in modern day revelation. First off, when do you know a prophet is receiving revelation or merely spouting off? Pres. Benson clearly spouted off most of the time when referring to political matters. And more of a comment ban a question, how interesting it would be to be a fly on the wall when the 12 meet. Someone like elder perry or oaks might have different political views or opinions on social issues than someone born in Europe.

 

[The Thriller]

As far as spouting off...

Just look at the difference between elder packer on tolerance and homosexuality vs pres Monson. Seriously, check out their talks. pres monson urged the members to be tolerant. he paused and looked straight into the camera. It was unmistakable what he was referring to.

yet, look at what pres. packer's entire talk was on!

I'm pretty sure they don't see eye to eye there. I'm not saying that the president would ever allow gay marriage within the church. In fact, I'm almost 100 percent certain that will never happen. However, I am a Mormon who understands that leaders are human being as well. They all have different views. As the church grows more diverse and foreign leaders fill the ranks, I'm pretty sure we will see a change (if we haven't already) in how the church approaches such things such as missionary work, education, outreach, addictions, and of course, gay marriage.

You can already see it. 5-10 years ago there wasn't any outreach towards gays or any calls for tolerance. Today? Rarely does a singles ward meeting to by without some sort of reference towards it. Today? Websites are dedicated to befriending and helping homosexual Mormons not feel excluded or harassed. Heck, even BYU students are getting into the act and creating movies about it and placing then on YouTube. Those students are about as closed minded and chicken(follow follow follow. necer ask questions or doubt! this aint liberal Cal university!) as they come and even they are stepping up.

I am willing to bet that some general authorities are probably for the choice of gay marriage (especially given the church's stance on free agency) while others are hyper opposed to it willing to use church funds and other influence to combat even the option of gay marriage.

While some general authorities might be fine with the one party rule system in Utah I know of at least one in the 12 who is not. Again, these folks are chosen of god however, they are also human beings. Just like I'm sure some will have different views on evolution and how/where/to what extent it should be taught in k-12 public education.

Heck just look at how the views of birth control have varied from church leader to church leader

 

[Scat]

Regarding polygamy... the LDS church still practices this in a manner of speaking. A man can be sealed to several women meaning that in "heaven", he will essentially be "married" to several women for eternity.

That said, if "heaven" exists, no man on this earth knows what it is like. Polygamy make be a perfectly fine form of cohabitation in "heaven".

 

[CONAN]

What is my beef with the church exactly?

I'm going to ask you, in all honesty, who do you think has researched this specific issue more between the two of us?

So because you spend more time trying to tear down the church I'm supposed to just bow to your opinion? I don't know what kind of nutless wonders you hang with that think your "research" is all that, but I'm not one of the them. You come in here trying to discredit those three men and yet try to use some of their statements as evidence. You can't have it both ways.

And I have no idea what your beef with the church is. And I don't care. But it's clear you have one. Show some intellectual honesty there, Guy.

 

[colton]

Mormons believe in other records being discovered... Records, I'm assuming of Christ or of Christian believing people's, right? Or what? Could it also be referring to books like the apocrypha? Gnostic texts? Stuff that Mormons actually use(such as conference talks?)

I don't have much of an opinion on that myself, but I think many LDS believe that the "other sheep" mentioned in 3 Nephi 16 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/16?lang=eng also would have kept records like the Book of Mormon and that those records may someday come to light. I'm not sure if most would feel that's going to be before the Millennium, though. So I'd say probably not apocrypha or gnostic texts.

The world is much older than thousands of years old. So what happened to the Dino's and continents? Wasn't the world innocent and in a state of peace/immortality before the fall? So what happened to the Dino's? When Adam and Eve were expelled, did the continents begin to break apart? Or could the whole 7 day thing just be one large symbol?

My view: I believe the 7 days are absolutely symbolic. I also believe that the Garden of Eden, although literal, was localized--so that things like the dinosaurs could have lived and died while everything was blissful in the garden. But I doubt there's a consensus among Mormons on this, and no official church doctrine that I know of.

Could Noah's ark also be a symbol just like the epic of Gilgamesh or the hundreds of other flood stories out there?

I believe Noah was a literal person who built a literal ark. I'm sure most LDS feel the same way, but there may be some who view it figuratively. My own view is that the flood was localized to Noah's region, though, not the whole earth. That might be a minority view among LDS; I'm not sure.

Mormons believe in modern day revelation. First off, when do you know a prophet is receiving revelation or merely spouting off? Pres. Benson clearly spouted off most of the time when referring to political matters.

Excellent question. My view: I agree with you that there are certainly times that even prophets/apostles spout off, although I did notice that Pres. Benson became a LOT less political once he became church president. If the prophet says "God has revealed to me...", then it's probably pretty trustworthy. But other than that, I think you just have to trust the spirit. And recognize that policies are different than doctrines (I've seen a number of the former change in my lifetime, but not too many of the latter).

And more of a comment ban a question, how interesting it would be to be a fly on the wall when the 12 meet. Someone like elder perry or oaks might have different political views or opinions on social issues than someone born in Europe.

Rumor has it that when Hugh B. Brown(*) and Pres. Benson were in the Quorum of the Twelve together, things sometimes got interesting. That's total hearsay, though.

(*) Elder Brown was very socially liberal, and from Canada.

 

[UGLI baby]

colton is mormon??

Whoa.

 

[Tony]

Bahaha I'm having a great time reading through this thread... Whoever asked if Mormons pleasure themselves, here's an interesting fact: In 2009 Harvard did a study and found that "The biggest consumers of online adult entertainment live in the great state of Utah." So yes, I'm sure Mormons spank their wankie.

I've got a question though. My aunt has a friend and he was going to marry this Mormon girl but she wanted to be married in the temple. So he did everything required to join BUT he skipped out because on the final step or something he had to go into this room and when he opened the door and saw what was going on he said he just had to get out of there and he and the girl eventually called it quits. What was going on behind the door?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What is the Mormon philosophy on giving neg reps?

 

[babe]

What is the Mormon philosophy on giving neg reps?

"Nay, Speak No Ill"