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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Zombie said:
Soliciting foreign interference in an election is an actual crime, regardless of whether or not a quid pro quo is involved.
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Obstruction of justice is also a crime. So hiding the original transcript on a different server, Barr’s attempt to kill the complaint, Trump’s initial denial, and now Trump’s request today to kill the whistleblower probably all constitutes as obstruction of justice.
 
I'm really getting a kick out of the idea that releasing the transcript after it became clear that the whistle-blower's complaint was going to be heard by congress makes it totally OK that Trump tried hiding it for months, while suppressing the complaint itself.

That's not how obstruction works geniuses.
 
Zombie said:
If you completely ignore the months of pressure the Trump administration put on Ukraine, this single phone call might not look like much. You're completely dismissing all of the context surrounding it.
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Yes! The AG Barr is investigating Ukraine as part of the DOJ investigation into the 2016 being headed by John Durham.

This is a report from March of this year --
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...s_ukrainian_plot_to_help_clinton_emerges.html

The Hill's John Solomon discusses his report that Ukraine’s top prosecutor has opened an investigation into whether that country's government leaked documents about Paul Manafort's finances during the 2016 election.

"We don't know much about it, because it is floating around Ukraine," Solomon told Hannity Wednesday night. "But we do know the general prosecutor of Ukraine, the equivalent of our Attorney General, came on our show this morning and said the following: There's enough evidence for me to open up a criminal investigation into the illicit effort by a Ukrainian to try to influence the U.S election in favor of Hillary Clinton."

"That's a profound statement coming from the top law enforcement official in Ukraine," he continued. "Why is that important? There's a court in Ukraine that has already concluded that Ukrainian officials linked Paul Manafort's financial records to try to sway the election. You haven't heard anything about that in the American press, but that ruling occurred recently."

"And then a parliamentary member comes out and says he has a tape of these law enforcement officials saying they did it specifically to help Hillary Clinton," he continued. "That becomes the foundation of the Ukrainian investigation."

This is part of the larger Justice Department investigation that will conclude and come out by the end of the year or early next year. The Dems know this is coming. A DOJ investigation into Ukraine has been going on for months, and it involves witnesses from the CIA in the U.S.

Zombie said:
You are also making the mistake that a quid pro quo is necessary for what Trump did to be improper and illegal. That's simply not the case.
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A quid pro quo for an investigation into Biden is precisely the abuse of power, if there was one. Simply asking Ukraine to look into corruption around the Crowdstrike server and 2016 election interference, and asking for details about Biden pressuring to fire the state prosecutor (or even being bribed by Hunter's gig with the gas company), would not be putting personal political interest before the country's. These things have already been investigated and have been out there for years. You really do need the quid pro quo to show Trump's personal interest. He can say anything he wants to a foreign official, especially if it involves U.S. political corruption that's already under investigation.

Zombie said:
As far as the cover up goes, we now understand the whistle-blower raised his concern early in August, and alleged that the White House secured the transcript of this call, and others, in a code word secured computer system purely because they contained politically damaging information about the president. This also, is a crime. Finally we know that the DNI decided to make the decision to bring this whistle-blowers complaint to the primary people implicated in the scandal, instead of to congress.
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The complaint was submitted to the intelligence Inspector General, who reviewed it and forwarded it to the DNI. The DNI reviewed it and had it reviewed by the DOJ over the question of executive privilege (which Joseph McGuire explained in the hearing this morning). The complaint cleared DOJ and was released by the DNI this week. That's not a cover-up. That's McGuire following his procedure. Trump agreed to release the phone transcript rather than protect it under executive privilege. That should tell you Trump wants this out there.

Zombie said:
You could pretty easily make that case that Trump is continuing to attempt to cover this up, by calling the whistle blower a spy and suggested we ought to treat him how we "used to treat spies and traitors." That sounds an awful lot like witness intimidation to me.
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There are spies in the intelligence community that have been working to undermine Trump. They've leaked several of his private conversations with other countries to the press during the past two years. In this case, the whistleblower only had second or third-hand access to information. The fact that the whistleblower is CIA also raises these suspicions, since the CIA consists of professional spies.

It's quite possible that John Durham's investigation is going to expose corruption at the CIA, FBI and the Dem party that involved both Russia and Ukraine. Here is an interview with Carl Bernstein from today warning that this is on its way. This will be the real story if/when it comes out. ---

Bernstein said Barr is trying to "bring about proof that there is a deep state conspiracy that led to" special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation and suggested that this is a story other journalists are chasing. "Barr is trying to deliver — I have his from other reporters from other sources — to deliver evidence that perhaps this has all been a deep state conspiracy just like Donald Trump alleges," he said. Bernstein appeared to be referencing the Justice Department's review of the origins of the Russia investigation being led by U.S. Attorney John Durham, examining whether there was any misconduct by Justice Department and FBI officials.
 
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Zombie said:
Soliciting foreign interference in an election is an actual crime, regardless of whether or not a quid pro quo is involved.
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And you think Trump is asking Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election? How? By meeting with Barr, Gulianni and others involved in the current DOJ investigation into corruption within US intelligence?

Can you prove Trump is asking Ukraine to interfere with our elections, or is this your own personal inference? Trump will certainly deny that he's asking Ukraine to interfere in the election.
 
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Catchall said:
And you think Trump is asking Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election? How? By meeting with Barr, Gulianni and others involved in the current DOJ investigation into corruption within US intelligence?
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Giuliani is part of DOJ now? He's Trump's personal lawyer ffs. His involvement is one of the biggest red flags in this whole affair.

If you really think this is about corruption in Ukraine, please point to a single example of Trump bringing this topic up that doesn't involve his political adversaries.
 
Catchall said:
Yes, DNI Joseph McGuire referred the complaint to the DOJ over the question of executive privilege, as he explained in today's hearing.
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Which is a scandal all on its own. Why would you turn over the complaint to the men implicated in it? It makes no sense.
 
The Thriller said:
Obstruction of justice is also a crime. So hiding the original transcript on a different server, Barr’s attempt to kill the complaint, Trump’s initial denial, and now Trump’s request today to kill the whistleblower probably all constitutes as obstruction of justice.
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All presidential phone conversations are privileged. Trump could have had the transcript destroyed and its records purged if he wanted to. He chose to have it released.

Trump requested for the whistle-blower to be killed? Huh?
 
Catchall said:
Yes! The AG Barr is investigating Ukraine as part of the DOJ investigation into the 2016 being headed by John Durham.

This is a report from March of this year --
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...s_ukrainian_plot_to_help_clinton_emerges.html

The Hill's John Solomon discusses his report that Ukraine’s top prosecutor has opened an investigation into whether that country's government leaked documents about Paul Manafort's finances during the 2016 election.

"We don't know much about it, because it is floating around Ukraine," Solomon told Hannity Wednesday night. "But we do know the general prosecutor of Ukraine, the equivalent of our Attorney General, came on our show this morning and said the following: There's enough evidence for me to open up a criminal investigation into the illicit effort by a Ukrainian to try to influence the U.S election in favor of Hillary Clinton."

"That's a profound statement coming from the top law enforcement official in Ukraine," he continued. "Why is that important? There's a court in Ukraine that has already concluded that Ukrainian officials linked Paul Manafort's financial records to try to sway the election. You haven't heard anything about that in the American press, but that ruling occurred recently."

"And then a parliamentary member comes out and says he has a tape of these law enforcement officials saying they did it specifically to help Hillary Clinton," he continued. "That becomes the foundation of the Ukrainian investigation."

This is part of the larger Justice Department investigation that will conclude and come out by the end of the year or early next year. The Dems know this is coming. A DOJ investigation into Ukraine has been going on for months, and it involves witnesses from the CIA in the U.S.



A quid pro quo for an investigation into Biden is precisely the abuse of power, if there was one. Simply asking Ukraine to look into corruption around the Crowdstrike server and 2016 election interference, and asking for details about Biden pressuring to fire the state prosecutor (or even being bribed by Hunter's gig with the gas company), would not be putting personal political interest before the country's. These things have already been investigated and have been out there for years. You really do need the quid pro quo to show Trump's personal interest. He can say anything he wants to a foreign official, especially if it involves U.S. political corruption that's already under investigation.



The complaint was submitted to the intelligence Inspector General, who reviewed it and forwarded it to the DNI. The DNI reviewed it and had it reviewed by the DOJ over the question of executive privilege (which Joseph McGuire explained in the hearing this morning). The complaint cleared DOJ and was released by the DNI this week. That's not a cover-up. That's McGuire following his procedure. Trump agreed to release the phone transcript rather than protect it under executive privilege. That should tell you Trump wants this out there.



There are spies in the intelligence community that have been working to undermine Trump. They've leaked several of his private conversations with other countries to the press during the past two years. In this case, the whistleblower only had second or third-hand access to information. The fact that the whistleblower is CIA also raises these suspicions, since the CIA consists of professional spies.

It's quite possible that John Durham's investigation is going to expose corruption at the CIA, FBI and the Dem party that involved both Russia and Ukraine. Here is an interview with Carl Bernstein from today warning that this is on its way. This will be the real story if/when it comes out. ---

Bernstein said Barr is trying to "bring about proof that there is a deep state conspiracy that led to" special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation and suggested that this is a story other journalists are chasing. "Barr is trying to deliver — I have his from other reporters from other sources — to deliver evidence that perhaps this has all been a deep state conspiracy just like Donald Trump alleges," he said. Bernstein appeared to be referencing the Justice Department's review of the origins of the Russia investigation being led by U.S. Attorney John Durham, examining whether there was any misconduct by Justice Department and FBI officials.
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Sorry a bunch of "deep state" looniness from Hannity's show doesn't carry much water here.
 
Zombie said:
Sorry a bunch of "deep state" looniness from Hannity's show doesn't carry much water here.
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John Solomon is an excellent and senior reporter. He freelances and contributes to The Hill. Fox brought him in to talk about his article.

Besides, the Dem's patsy Carl Bernstein was talking about it today. See the other quote at the bottom of that post.
 
Catchall said:
John Solomon is an excellent and senior reporter. He freelances and contributes to The Hill. Besides, the Dem's patsy Carl Bernstein was talking about it today. See the other quote at the bottom of that post.
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You'll notice the Hill publishes his content under "opinion" that tells you just about all you need to know.
 
Zombie said:
Giuliani is part of DOJ now? He's Trump's personal lawyer ffs. His involvement is one of the biggest red flags in this whole affair.

If you really think this is about corruption in Ukraine, please point to a single example of Trump bringing this topic up that doesn't involve his political adversaries.
Click to expand...

Trump has been personally implicated in a Russia scandal. While the Mueller report is now over, multiple House committees are still carrying on the same investigation. As Trump's lawyer, Gulliani has the right to seek information relevant to his client's defense. Ukraine's role in the 2016 election is extremely relevant.
 
Zombie said:
You'll notice the Hill publishes his content under "opinion" that tells you just about all you need to know.
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They publish a number of different things. If they're opinion, they'll be published as Opinion. He's reporting hard news here, but nice try to deflect. Again, Bernstein is reporting a very similar story.
 
Catchall said:
Trump has been personally implicated in a Russia scandal. While the Mueller report is now over, multiple House committees are still carrying on the same investigation. As Trump's lawyer, Gulliani has the right to seek information relevant to his client's defense. Ukraine's role in the 2016 election is extremely relevant.
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So wait, is this about rooting out Ukrainian corruption in the interest of the US government, or about Trump's personal defense.

It literally can't be both, Giuliani is claiming he was directed by DOJ. Pretty sure it's not their job to work as Trump's legal counsel.
 
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