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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Giuliani is part of DOJ now? He's Trump's personal lawyer ffs. His involvement is one of the biggest red flags in this whole affair.

If you really think this is about corruption in Ukraine, please point to a single example of Trump bringing this topic up that doesn't involve his political adversaries.

This is about corruption in the U.S., where Democrats and intelligence operatives colluded with Ukraine in 2016. It's relevant to the DOJ investigation and multiple House committee investigations. The new Ukrainian president ran on a platform of anti-corruption. Zelenskyy was the one who brought up corruption in the phone call with Trump. Trump is seeing who he's dealing with, and Zelenskyy is volunteering to cooperate.

Here is the phone transcript from the Trump/Zelensky call. This is verbatim:

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
 
So wait, is this about rooting out Ukrainian corruption in the interest of the US government, or about Trump's personal defense.

It literally can't be both, Giuliani is claiming he was directed by DOJ. Pretty sure it's not their job to work as Trump's legal counsel.

Information from the DOJ investigation should flow from Ukraine --> DOJ --> Gulliani. However, as Trump's defense attorney, it's relevant to hear first-hand what evidence there is related to his client. This doesn't involve Biden though. This involves the 2016 election scandal. Those are two separate topics.
 
Information from the DOJ investigation should flow from Ukraine --> DOJ --> Gulliani. However, as Trump's defense attorney, it's relevant to hear first-hand what evidence there is related to his client. This doesn't involve Biden though. This involves the 2016 election scandal.
Lmao, dude no. Let me break this down for your. DOJ=prosecutors. Giuliani=Defense. Why in God's green earth should they be working together?


BTW Giuliani is on the record saying his work was about Biden, and also that he wasn't there as a "lawyer."

So. Yeah.
 
Lmao, dude no. Let me break this down for your. DOJ=prosecutors. Giuliani=Defense. Why in God's green earth should they be working together?

DOJ also includes investigators who gather evidence. In this case, DOJ is investigating the circumstances surrounding the 2016 election, spying on Trump's 2016 campaign, and a bogus counter-intelligence operation that took root in the FBI, with involvement from the CIA. It involves Ukraine, as well as Russia. The decision to prosecute individuals will then be made based on the information gathered.

Trump and his campaign are at the center of it, as the subject of the Mueller investigation and House committee investigations. Hence, many of the same facts are relevant to Gulliani.

Trump said in his call with Zelenskyy that Barr/DOJ and Giuliani would be in touch with him, but those are for different reasons.

BTW Giuliani is on the record saying his work was about Biden, and also that he wasn't there as a "lawyer."
So. Yeah.

This could get dicey. If Giuliani is involved in opposition research for Trump involving Biden, that's normal. If Giuliani is pressuring Ukraine and meddling in foreign relations, that becomes unethical pretty quickly, in my opinion. That should be left to the DOJ on an as-needed basis.
 
The Dems are going to need some incontrovertible proof that Trump was holding up aid unless/until Ukraine agrees to investigate Biden specifically. Inference and insinuation from Democrats aren't going to make a compelling case. In today's hearing, Schiff was acting out a mafia mob-boss scenario where Trump was supposedly pressuring Zelenskyy to do him favors, but he was using his own subjective and jaded interpretation of the call transcript, and using his own words, to do it. He was departing from the call transcript, and many people were rolling their eyes.

The Dems are asking people to read the phone transcript and infer that pressure from Trump was implied throughout the course of the phone call. They keep quoting the phrase that mentions Biden later in the call and keep saying, "See, this implies that Trump was pressuring..." They keep using the word "imply." However, if you want to impeach a sitting president, there is a significant burden of proof, and you need something more than a subjective read of a phone call (or an anonymous whistle-blower's subjective read of a phone call that s/he didn't participate in).

A lot of people are describing this as a very normal phone call between two world leaders, one that Trump could have simply withheld and protected with executive privilege. The fact that Trump has released the call transcript and the whistle-blower complaint (not just to Congress, but to the public), without using executive privilege, should tell you that he wants this out there and that he wants this to blow up.

In the words of Paul Simon: "A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."
A very normal phone call that got separated from all the other normal phone call records and placed in top security...

Nothing to see here folks. build that dumb *** wall!
 
All presidential phone conversations are privileged. Trump could have had the transcript destroyed and its records purged if he wanted to. He chose to have it released.

Trump requested for the whistle-blower to be killed? Huh?
Anyone can correct me if I don't understand this, but my understanding is that the President CANNOT destroy these records.

Clarification requested.
 
DOJ also includes investigators who gather evidence. In this case, DOJ is investigating the circumstances surrounding the 2016 election, spying on Trump's 2016 campaign, and a bogus counter-intelligence operation that took root in the FBI, with involvement from the CIA. It involves Ukraine, as well as Russia. The decision to prosecute individuals will then be made based on the information gathered.

Trump and his campaign are at the center of it, as the subject of the Mueller investigation and House committee investigations. Hence, many of the same facts are relevant to Gulliani.

Trump said in his call with Zelenskyy that Barr/DOJ and Giuliani would be in touch with him, but those are for different reasons.



This could get dicey. If Giuliani is involved in opposition research for Trump involving Biden, that's normal. If Giuliani is pressuring Ukraine and meddling in foreign relations, that becomes unethical pretty quickly, in my opinion. That should be left to the DOJ on an as-needed basis.
You seem to be all over the place here. So Trump sending Giuliani to talk to Ukraine is a different matter from Trump using Barr to do the same thing? Even though Giuliani claims he was directed by DOJ as well? This is getting nonsensical.
 
Anyone can correct me if I don't understand this, but my understanding is that the President CANNOT destroy these records.

Clarification requested.
That would be illegal. As would moving records from servers they are normally stored on, to code word level classified servers for political reasons.
 
Right, and I assume you think that Kavanaugh is different from all other Supreme Court nominees.
I don't give a **** about kavanaugh or any supreme Court justices so I have no idea how he compares to them.

I do know that Trump is different from any other president in history though.

Maybe you can name some previous presidents that were reality TV stars and never worked in government or politics prior to becoming president? I'll wait

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I don't give a **** about kavanaugh or any supreme Court justices so I have no idea how he compares to them.

I do know that Trump is different from any other president in history though.

Maybe you can name some previous presidents that were reality TV stars and never worked in government or politics prior to becoming president? I'll wait

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
You got me there, especially since coming from the private sector is such a crime. Hate on, Dude.
 
You seem to be all over the place here. So Trump sending Giuliani to talk to Ukraine is a different matter from Trump using Barr to do the same thing? Even though Giuliani claims he was directed by DOJ as well? This is getting nonsensical.

It depends on the subjects they're talking about. AG Barr and District Attorney John Durham have been engaged in an investigation into the U.S. intelligence community and the 2016 election. Ukraine is involved, as apparently they have important evidence, and that was the first topic on corruption that Trump/Zellenskyy touched on in their call. Giuliani should not be involved in this at all, and there's no reason why Barr would allow Giuliani to be involved in this, since he firewalls DOJ investigations.

Giuliani is representing Trump on the related matter of 2016 election interference, and some actions that Democrats in Congress took towards Ukraine are relevant to ongoing congressional investigations. Hence, some evidence that Ukraine has is relevant to Giuliani as well.

What matters in the impeachment inquiry is the degree to which Trump is mixing state business and personal campaign research. If the Dems can get someone like Giuliani to brag, "We ain't sending aid to Ukraine unless they give us the dish on Biden," then Giuliani muddies the waters and is pretty much the smoking gun the Dems need. This is the conclusion that the Dems like Schiff want to get to, but so far the evidence is only circumstantial.

The DOJ is likely going to issue a report that says the U.S. intelligence community, the Democrats, and some members of the media purposely carried out a counter-intelligence operation against Trump to undermine him, beginning in the spring of 2016. That report is then going to play heavily in Trump's 2020 campaign. Trump is going to say the Dems are corrupt, including Biden (if he's still in the picture).

However, Trump shouldn't pressure Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. He should sit back and let the DOJ do its job, or just go with the information on Joe and Hunter Biden that's already been out there for years.

It does look like, from the call transcript, that Trump is inviting Zellensky to voluntarily dish on the Bidens, but he is being careful to be a bit vague and indirect. Zellensky is saying that he will expose corruption in Ukraine and bring in a state prosecutor he has 100% confidence in. However, the phone conversation is inconclusive. Trump raises the subject, but doesn't make a concrete ask. There's no threat or demand for direct quid pro quo. It goes without saying that the U.S. has the ability to send a lot of money to Ukraine, and it's clear that Trump has a lot of influence with the Republican Senate. It's clear that Zellenskyy wants to make the U.S. and Trump specifically happy. But you can't impeach a president for conducting foreign relations. That's not corruption in and of itself.

The standard of High Crimes and Misdemeanors is a pretty high standard to reach for impeachment.
 
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You got me there, especially since coming from the private sector is such a crime. Hate on, Dude.
Private sector...

He's a **** businessman, and a b-list reality TV guy.

"private sector"

Enjoy your reality TV presidency.

"You're Fired!" yargh!
 
That would be illegal. As would moving records from servers they are normally stored on, to code word level classified servers for political reasons.

So trump is using his own private server to hide emails I mean phone calls from others and promoting his own corrupt personal agenda? and republicans are fine with it?

Now that’s ironic! Do these morons really not see what they’re turning into?
 
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