The official "let's impeach Trump" thread
- Thread starter colton
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This looks like campaign finance regulation. Are you saying that this is somehow relevant to trying to impeach Trump?
I thought you wanted to accuse Trump of blackmailing Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Or, has that idea already fizzled out.
And what is the other thing you're saying I called a "fallacy"?
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I mean, Shokin's claim that there were never complaints about his performance before Biden got involved is just crazy. There's photos of protests, all from Ukrainians, specifically about him some six months before Biden's involvement.
Shokin was one of the least popular people in the country in Fall of 2015 through spring of 2016. Acting like he was doing a recognized good job until the Americans came in and took it from him is a truly laughable statement.
The person he's swearing a statement on behalf of, Firtash, is a Yanukovych administration figure - the same guy that is now living in exile in Southern Russia because he triggered a revolution in the country in 2014. This is one of the pro-Russia forces on the outs in Ukraine standing up for their own.
In summary, Shokin is not a reliable narrator when he says that everything relating to his job in Ukraine was fine until Biden was involved.
fishonjazz
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I don't thriller has the power to impeach. I think it's some pelosi chick or Congress or something
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Trump doesn't need a defense of any kind unless a real and credible charge emerges. So far, we have a phone transcript with Trump and Zelenskyy discussing corruption and an anonymous whistle-blower raising concerns based on 2nd and 3rd-hand conversations. If the impeachment process gets to the point where there are articles of impeachment and a clear cause of action, then Trump can think about defense. But so far, the Dems are swinging in all directions, seeing if they've got a noodle that might stick. Adam Schiff's theatrical performance yesterday was a step backward.
You'd better let him know. He'll be disappointed to hear that.
Actually, it's supposed to be the entire House voting as a starting point, but for some reason the vote is being held off.
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
Now you're going in circles. The FEC's interpretation of a definition 1) isn't a definition itself, and 2) has no legally binding consequences. This is the FEC showing how they will choose to use their enforcement discretion. A judge will ultimately decide if challenged, if a non-arbitrary definition isn't adopted first. And then that will likely be challenged too.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
It's pretty amusing watching you lean so heavily on the "hearsay" aspect of the whistleblowers complaint after it was confirmed to be accurate by Donald Trump's release of the memo, and, you keep leaving this part out even though I know you are aware of it, the claims were investigated by the inspector general and found to be credible.
Is there some reason to doubt that the IGs word on this?
JazzyFresh
Banned
Lol this is all too familiar.
Just because the IG thinks the whistle-blower complaint is credible and forwards it to the DNI doesn't mean that the IG has reviewed evidence or conducted an investigation. The IG knows little to nothing about Trump's interactions with Ukraine or the DOJ's ongoing investigations. He's just taking the allegations seriously enough to register the complaint with the DNI.
The complaint itself is referring to the phone call with Zelenskyy that the whistleblower wasn't party to, and the transcript has been released to the public. The complaint also relies on second and third-hand conversations and tries to create a context by quoting mainstream media articles from months ago. It's formally written, but the evidence is soft.
Also, why don't you tell me what you think has been 'confirmed' by the call transcript?
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I hope to eventually learn whether he was aggressively pursuing the Burisma case at the time this situation arose as he claims, or if it had been on hold and his inaction on the case was partially the reason for his dismissal as his opponents claim. If he is lying he is sure doing an elaborate job of it.
Why do you think another Ukranian government official chose to write this memo which names several lawyers who were representing Hunter Biden shortly after Shokin's termination?
Zombie
Well-Known Member
The IG would have spoken with those who the whistleblower got his secondhand information from. If it was made up if wouldn't have been found credible and the process would have ended there. Bringing up that it's hearsay is meaningless.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Uh, pretty obviously that the President wanted Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, and he was using the military aid as leverage.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Sorry, my mistake!! I crossed posters in my head.
I meant to ask that of @idestroyedthetoilet , who yesterday in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-121#post-1822892 called my asking for @sirkickyass's legal opinion about whether things without precisely defined financial equivalents could/would still legally be considered to be of "value" (in this post https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822647, also see kicky's reply https://jazzfanz.com/threads/the-official-lets-impeach-trump-thread.113221/page-118#post-1822667) an appeal to authority fallacy.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Hasn’t both Rudy and Trump admitted such?
Cuomo: Did you ever ask Ukraine to look into the Biden’s?
Rudy: Of course I did!
Context: Trump stopped the flow of defensive missiles to Ukraine to stop the investigation of Manafort. Already setting a precedent for a transactional foreign policy where Trump is the strong member government of the power dynamic. And unless Ukraine does what’s beneficial personally to Trump, then Ukraine is going to lose out on aid. Trump pence from attending Zelensky’s inauguration in May. Trump delayed the aid passed by Congress (even McConnell admitted that he never got an explanation for this). Trump clearly indicated in this phone call (and according to the whistleblower, on others) that he wanted Zelensky to do him favors (find the DNC server and manufacture dirt on Biden).
Like... it isn’t hard to see this. It’s pretty obvious what happened. They got caught
I don't believe there are any public statements by Shokin regarding Burisma the entire time he's in office (per the Kyiv post, who went looking for these in Ukrainian and Russian). If he was "aggressively pursuing" it, then he was doing so secretly.
I'm willing to revise my opinion on the subject if anyone can point to anything he actually did during the time he was in office.
I don't see Biden's name in that document, nor do I really understand who's writing it or what the context is. I'd probably have to see more than this one page to make heads or tails of it.
Maybe it's Yuriy Sevrik? He was only Prosecutor General for a couple of months. I dont' really know anything about him.