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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

In related news, it appears that the House is now going on vacation for the next two weeks. I applaud their conviction and steely resolve in the face of this self-proclaimed constitutional crisis.

Thanks for repeating your Steve Scalise Republican talking pts. Doesn’t mean it’s true. Yet another Poorly informed post.

For those genuinely interested, House committees are continuing the impeachment inquiry with the following scheduled hearings. Those informed know that committees investigate. The entire House isn’t involved in the impeachment inquiry. Here’s the calendar:

 
Just for reference, the process of impeachment would normally begin with a clear charge of a High Crime or Misdemeanor, some evidence to support that accusation, and a House vote to approve the impeachment inquiry. Pelosi is skipping the House vote and is light on evidence far. It's her call though.
Asking a foreign leader to investigate a political rival -- High Crimes and Misdemeanors? Check!
Internal document recording the details of the call -- Evidence? Check!

I'm not sure about the vote thing. If she has the power to begin the inquiry without a vote then she has that power. If she needs a vote she could get the votes for the inquiry.
 
Just for reference, the process of impeachment would normally begin with a clear charge of a High Crime or Misdemeanor, some evidence to support that accusation, and a House vote to approve the impeachment inquiry. Pelosi is skipping the House vote and is light on evidence far. It's her call though.
That doesn't seem to be how the Nixon impeachment went down. There was an impeachment inquiry investigation that began months before the House voted on whether or not to begin the process formally.

What you seem to be referring to is the actual drafting of articles of impeachment and a vote to impeach the President. We're not at that point yet.
 
That doesn't seem to be how the Nixon impeachment went down. There was an impeachment inquiry investigation that began months before the House voted on whether or not to begin the process formally.

What you seem to be referring to is the actual drafting of articles of impeachment and a vote to impeach the President. We're not at that point yet.

He’s just regurgitating republican talking pts that have been plastered in the web by Scalise (yesterday), Daily Wire, and OANN. Both are producing disinformation claiming:

1. Dems are on vacation for 2 weeks.
2. Dems are advocating the impeachment votes of everyone (kav, Barr, Trump).

It’s obvious he’s either poorly informed and just taking these stories from biased sources as fact or actively promoting disinformation.

Just to get ahead of the next lame *** argument, trumpers will soon claim that the Obama admin did the same thing as trump did.



They don’t expect you to read beyond the headline. If you read the story it’ll explain that the only time Obama used a secret server was when the leaders shared classified information. So how it’s supposed to be done. Unlike trump, who used a secret server to hide politically embarrassing or illegal communications.
 
He’s just regurgitating republican talking pts that have been plastered in the web by Daily Wire and OANN. Both are producing disinformation claiming:

1. Dems are on vacation for 2 weeks.
2. Dems are advocating the impeachment votes of everyone (kav, Barr, Trump).

It’s obvious he’s either poorly informed and just taking these stories from biased sources as fact or actively promoting disinformation.

Just to get ahead of the next lame *** argument, trumpers will soon claim that the Obama admin did the same thing as trump did.



They don’t expect you to read beyond the headline. If you read the story it’ll explain that the only time Obama used a secret server was when the leaders shared classified information. So how it’s supposed to be done. Unlike trump, who used a secret server to hide politically embarrassing or illegal communications.

Ah. Not too surprising. I'm sure there are plenty of calls that Trump had that ought to have been secured in a classified server. That's not the problem at all. Misusing that system to hide calls that are politically embarrassing though, is another matter.
 
I’m in the minority’s who thinks trump just hates anyone who does not mindlessly worship him. Black white Jew gentile. Suck up to him and he loves you.

He panders to bigots for votes for sure. But is he a bigot? Okay, probably yes. Talked myself out of it, never mind.
Made me laugh.
 
Julie Swetnick. Next question, please.
Prove it! I'm gonna need audio and video evidence of her saying it along with a transcripts and everything must be time and date stamped too.

Oh and I have to be there when it happens!

I will bet you 100 dollars that you can't prove it!

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By all means, the whistleblower's allegations should be investigated, as should the whistleblower. When real evidence arrives, I'm sure we'll all hear about it.
Is it your general position that all whistleblowers should be investigated, or just the ones who speak ill of Trump?

(Fwiw the view of essentially all rational people is that it's the CLAIMS that should be investigated, and that the whistleblowers as people should stay anonymous.)
 
Ah. Not too surprising. I'm sure there are plenty of calls that Trump had that ought to have been secured in a classified server. That's not the problem at all. Misusing that system to hide calls that are politically embarrassing though, is another matter.

Most of the President's calls are subject to being classified. This particular call had to be de-classified to be released. Trump also had to get Zellenskyy's permission to declassify the conversation and release the transcript. Included in this call was a discussion of the U.S.'s support for Ukraine vs. Russia, criticism of Angela Merkel/Germany and the EU for not supporting Ukraine enough, and the U.S. criticizing and replacing its Ambassador to Ukraine. Zellenskyy discussed plans to investigate corruption in his country and hire a state prosecutor that supports his administration. Both the U.S. and Ukraine would normally agree that such a conversation should be classified. Neither Trump nor Zellenskyy want to conduct their bi-lateral relations through the New York Times. If these conversations were public, then no one would dare to say anything sensitive. They'd just talk about the Mets.

The question here is whether Trump and Zellenskyy's discussion on corruption was legitimate, or whether it amounted to a form of bribery or blackmail on behalf of Trump's personal political campaign. Obviously, Trump denies this. Given that there is a history of corruption in Ukraine, given that the DOJ is actively investigating corruption on the part of U.S. officials in Ukraine, and given the admitted history of Joe and Hunter Biden, an argument can easily be made that discussing corruption and mentioning the Bidens is both legitimate and justified, especially when Zellenskyy was the one who raised the subject.
 
Most of the President's calls are subject to being classified. This particular call had to be de-classified to be released. Trump also had to get Zellenskyy's permission to declassify the conversation and release the transcript. Included in this call was a discussion of the U.S.'s support for Ukraine vs. Russia, criticism of Angela Merkel/Germany and the EU for not supporting Ukraine enough, and the U.S. criticizing and replacing its Ambassador to Ukraine. Zellenskyy discussed plans to investigate corruption in his country and hire a state prosecutor that supports his administration. Both the U.S. and Ukraine would normally agree that such a conversation should be classified. Neither Trump nor Zellenskyy want to conduct their bi-lateral relations through the New York Times. If these conversations were public, then no one would dare to say anything sensitive. They'd just talk about the Mets.

The question here is whether Trump and Zellenskyy's discussion on corruption was legitimate, or whether it amounted to a form of bribery or blackmail on behalf of Trump's personal political campaign. Obviously, Trump denies this. Given that there is a history of corruption in Ukraine, given that the DOJ is actively investigating corruption on the part of U.S. officials in Ukraine, and given the admitted history of Joe and Hunter Biden, an argument can easily be made that discussing corruption and mentioning the Bidens is both legitimate and justified, especially when Zellenskyy was the one who raised the subject.
Yeah I've heard your spin on this situation laid out plenty already.

You continue to ignore the troubling reality that Trump only asks about Ukrainian corruption as it pertains to his political adversaries.

And in the case of the Bidens you continue to ignore the reality of Joe Biden's position on the corrupt prosecutor. That is that Joe pushing for a new Ukrainian prosecutor made Burisma more likely to be prosecuted, not less.

This is also a telling choice of words by Trump.

 
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Damn. I guess her sworn deposition is not enough.
Of course not. I would have to be at the party when it happened for it to count as proof.
You owe me 100 dollars now

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Is it your general position that all whistleblowers should be investigated, or just the ones who speak ill of Trump?

(Fwiw the view of essentially all rational people is that it's the CLAIMS that should be investigated, and that the whistleblowers as people should stay anonymous.)

There's a Whistleblower Protection Act that guarantees a government whistleblower freedom to make their claims (free speech) and be protected from prejudice, like getting fired or vilified for blowing the whistle. I don't think it says the whistleblower can remain anonymous. In most cases, who the whistleblower is, his/her experience, and the relation to the people being accused are all pretty relevant and important to establish the accusations as credible. That's usually why the first thing a whistleblower does is announce who he or she is.

If this person is CIA and needs to hide his identity as part of his job, then maybe that's different. It's possible he could testify behind closed doors. If it turns out this guy is working as a spy under cover in the White House, he may need to be reassigned. Trump probably also wants him removed.
 
There's a Whistleblower Protection Act that guarantees a government whistleblower freedom to make their claims (free speech) and be protected from prejudice, like getting fired or vilified for blowing the whistle. I don't think it says the whistleblower can remain anonymous. In most cases, who the whistleblower is, his/her experience, and the relation to the people being accused are all pretty relevant and important to establish the accusations as credible. That's usually why the first thing a whistleblower does is announce who he or she is.

If this person is CIA and needs to hide his identity as part of his job, then maybe that's different. It's possible he could testify behind closed doors. If it turns out this guy is working as a spy under cover in the White House, he may need to be reassigned. Trump probably also wants him removed.

A whistleblower protection that doesn’t allow the whistleblower to remain anonymous yet permits them to voice their complaint doesn’t seem to be any protection at all. The very point of whistleblower protection is to protect the whistleblower’s anonymity.

Could you imagine how many white supremacists and Russian agents would be hunting down the whistleblower today if we already had his/her identity? Trump’s biggest fans have already killed scores of people from new Zealand to El Paso to Pittsburgh to Charlottesville. White Van Boy could’ve killed scores more had his bombs gone off.

So yeah, I think it’s wise for the whistleblower to remain anonymous until the inquiry has gone further.

A question we should all be asking ourselves, “Why are Trumpers so much more eager to learn of the whistleblower’s identity rather than the corruption his/her complaint has exposed and continues to expose?”
 
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Most of the President's calls are subject to being classified. This particular call had to be de-classified to be released. Trump also had to get Zellenskyy's permission to declassify the conversation and release the transcript. Included in this call was a discussion of the U.S.'s support for Ukraine vs. Russia, criticism of Angela Merkel/Germany and the EU for not supporting Ukraine enough, and the U.S. criticizing and replacing its Ambassador to Ukraine. Zellenskyy discussed plans to investigate corruption in his country and hire a state prosecutor that supports his administration. Both the U.S. and Ukraine would normally agree that such a conversation should be classified. Neither Trump nor Zellenskyy want to conduct their bi-lateral relations through the New York Times. If these conversations were public, then no one would dare to say anything sensitive. They'd just talk about the Mets.

The question here is whether Trump and Zellenskyy's discussion on corruption was legitimate, or whether it amounted to a form of bribery or blackmail on behalf of Trump's personal political campaign. Obviously, Trump denies this. Given that there is a history of corruption in Ukraine, given that the DOJ is actively investigating corruption on the part of U.S. officials in Ukraine, and given the admitted history of Joe and Hunter Biden, an argument can easily be made that discussing corruption and mentioning the Bidens is both legitimate and justified, especially when Zellenskyy was the one who raised the subject.

First off, only communications that endangers national security can be classified. A president cannot just classify whatever they want. See the post and times that have come out with articles over the past few days that have explained this.

Secondly, it has been explained ad nauseam that most communications aren’t classified. Michael Barbaro from The Daily (NY Times) had Julie Hirchfield Davis, a congressional editor, on Friday’s podcast to explain this. She also explained how Trumpworld was storing politically embarrassing communications on this classified server in order to keep things secret. But thanks to the whistleblower, that’s been exposed.

Lastly, if we don’t hold presidents accountable for (a) breaking laws, why should anyone follow them? If we (b) don’t compel the president to be transparent in his communications (as long as they aren’t endangering national security) then how can we hold him/her accountable? Remember, Trump released the sanitized version of his call and look at how devastating it was. We still don’t have the original.

Politically embarrassing calls are different than calls that pass along secretive information that can endanger national Security. Unfortunately, Trump and his followers equate his success to our national success. That’s why they broke the law and continue to spew disinformation today.

However, his personal success is not our national success. Especially right now, where our country would benefit exponentially if he just left office right now. But that’s ok, we’ll crowbar his *** out of the Oval Office and take his republican enablers with him between now and Nov 2020.
 


Soooooo no one else helped build our economy? He did it all by himself? I’m old enough to remember Obama saying...

And because the economy is good, it grants him the ability to break the law with impunity?
 


Soooooo no one else helped build our economy? He did it all by himself? I’m old enough to remember Obama saying...

And because the economy is good, it grants him the ability to break the law with impunity?
Lol at entirely rebuilt our military. Wtf

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