The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Well done. Fantastic way to end a conversation with someone who’s completely delusional. Honestly, I don’t know why anyone wastes their time with someone so closed to facts or reason. Your patience is admirable
The official "let's impeach Trump" thread
- Thread starter colton
- Start date
Well done. Fantastic way to end a conversation with someone who’s completely delusional. Honestly, I don’t know why anyone wastes their time with someone so closed to facts or reason. Your patience is admirable
I've seen you shut off posters that typically have detailed, considered opinions and offer an exchange of ideas.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I apologize if I’ve done that. If posters have reasoned posts, I try to read what they say. If they’re trolls, I shut them down. I think I do a pretty good job of listening to different opinions and have good conversations with those who want to.
I read the transcript.* It did not say what you said it said.
"This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus, and then tried to walk it back today by saying he was being sarcastic. That was obviously a lie. Earlier in the day, the White House press secretary put out a statement that didn't mention anything about sarcasm, just accused the press of taking things out of context."
I bolded part for emphasis. To me that seems accurate. Trump did suggest that people might be able to cure themselves by injecting with disinfectant. He didn't tell people to try this. And CNN didn't say that Trump told people to try this.
*full disclosure, I searched for the word "inject" and only read around those spots.
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Red
Well-Known Member
Here is the entire transcript from the briefing in which Trump made his controversial comments regarding injection of disinfectants:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ers-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/
So, I wanted to know where Trump got the idea of injecting disinfectants. It may have come from how DHS official Bill Bryan worded his statement on disinfectant studies:
“We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus, specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids. And I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.“
Is it possible Trump got his idea from the fact Bryan spoke of the effect of disinfectant on the virus when present in saliva or respiratory fluids?
Trump’s statement, after Bryan’s address to the press:
“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me”.
We also can’t ignore this exchange during the part of the briefing devoted to reporters questions:
Q But I — just, can I ask about — the President mentioned the idea of cleaners, like bleach and isopropyl alcohol you mentioned. There’s no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there? I mean —
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: No, I’m here to talk about the findings that we had in the study. We won’t do that within that lab and our lab. So —
THE PRESIDENT: It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.
———————————————
So, in the end, Trump did say disinfectants would not be injected, but, I’m not actually sure what he is saying in the above statement. He seems to imply stationary surfaces, yet he did say “by injection inside”, prior to saying “it wouldn’t be through injection”.
He was winging it, trying to appear on top of things. I think it’s part of his “nobody knows better than me” habitual position. (See the “nobody knows better than me” compilation video earlier in this thread) Personally, I think he has always known he is not qualified to be president, and hence he often fakes it to mask that fact. It’s just that he does not often fool anybody in faking it, other than his base.
(Donald Trump is fundamentally insecure. Hence his all too frequent defensive outbursts, attacks on any press organization that does not praise him, adoption of a persecution (I am the victim) complex, etc. All can be traced to massive insecurity and his own understanding that he is not qualified to be president in the first place. This persecution, Deep State out to get me, complex also insures his followers can ignore any genuine substance in the media criticism against him.)
Finally,
Regarding these statements from CNN observers:
Wolfe Blitzer, "...the president knew he was about to be bombarded with very serious, important questions about what he said yesterday, which turned out to be a flat lie, as far as ingesting and -- various products that could kill you, potentially."
Jim Acosta, "This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus."
Sanjay Gupta, "The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus."
Compared to Trump’s initial disinfectant statements, Gupta’s observation appears spot on. The other two statements by Blitzer and Acosta certainly seem to reflect the spirit of Trump’s statement, although “ingesting”, and “inject themselves” were not spoken by Trump.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...ers-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-31/
So, I wanted to know where Trump got the idea of injecting disinfectants. It may have come from how DHS official Bill Bryan worded his statement on disinfectant studies:
“We’re also testing disinfectants readily available. We’ve tested bleach, we’ve tested isopropyl alcohol on the virus, specifically in saliva or in respiratory fluids. And I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus in five minutes; isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in 30 seconds, and that’s with no manipulation, no rubbing — just spraying it on and letting it go. You rub it and it goes away even faster. We’re also looking at other disinfectants, specifically looking at the COVID-19 virus in saliva.“
Is it possible Trump got his idea from the fact Bryan spoke of the effect of disinfectant on the virus when present in saliva or respiratory fluids?
Trump’s statement, after Bryan’s address to the press:
“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it would be interesting to check that. So, that, you’re going to have to use medical doctors with. But it sounds — it sounds interesting to me”.
We also can’t ignore this exchange during the part of the briefing devoted to reporters questions:
Q But I — just, can I ask about — the President mentioned the idea of cleaners, like bleach and isopropyl alcohol you mentioned. There’s no scenario that that could be injected into a person, is there? I mean —
ACTING UNDER SECRETARY BRYAN: No, I’m here to talk about the findings that we had in the study. We won’t do that within that lab and our lab. So —
THE PRESIDENT: It wouldn’t be through injection. We’re talking about through almost a cleaning, sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work. But it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.
———————————————
So, in the end, Trump did say disinfectants would not be injected, but, I’m not actually sure what he is saying in the above statement. He seems to imply stationary surfaces, yet he did say “by injection inside”, prior to saying “it wouldn’t be through injection”.
He was winging it, trying to appear on top of things. I think it’s part of his “nobody knows better than me” habitual position. (See the “nobody knows better than me” compilation video earlier in this thread) Personally, I think he has always known he is not qualified to be president, and hence he often fakes it to mask that fact. It’s just that he does not often fool anybody in faking it, other than his base.
(Donald Trump is fundamentally insecure. Hence his all too frequent defensive outbursts, attacks on any press organization that does not praise him, adoption of a persecution (I am the victim) complex, etc. All can be traced to massive insecurity and his own understanding that he is not qualified to be president in the first place. This persecution, Deep State out to get me, complex also insures his followers can ignore any genuine substance in the media criticism against him.)
Finally,
Regarding these statements from CNN observers:
Wolfe Blitzer, "...the president knew he was about to be bombarded with very serious, important questions about what he said yesterday, which turned out to be a flat lie, as far as ingesting and -- various products that could kill you, potentially."
Jim Acosta, "This is a president who is feeling the heat big time, after he made that outlandish, ridiculous comment yesterday that people could inject themselves potentially with household disinfectants as a cure for the coronavirus."
Sanjay Gupta, "The president specifically suggested that potentially injecting some sort of disinfectant into your body might be a possible way to deal with coronavirus."
Compared to Trump’s initial disinfectant statements, Gupta’s observation appears spot on. The other two statements by Blitzer and Acosta certainly seem to reflect the spirit of Trump’s statement, although “ingesting”, and “inject themselves” were not spoken by Trump.
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I'm referring to infection, specifically. He my have firm opinions on many things, but he'll discuss them reasonably and rationally.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
That hasn’t been my experience. And at the end of the day, no one is obligated to discuss with anyone else. Just because Infection wants to waste my time doesn’t mean that I’m obligated to. He’s still free to post and discuss with others who desire to talk to him, so I’m not sure what exactly I shut down.
Avery
Well-Known Member
What's funny is that either Political Jazz Fan or Thriller think that posting far-left or far-right tweets are going to influence anyone on this forum.
If you like Trump, you're voting for him in November. If you like Biden, you're voting for him in November. I just don't see a wide pool of people who hem and haw and can't decide between either of them as politically, they're nothing alike.
If you like Trump, you're voting for him in November. If you like Biden, you're voting for him in November. I just don't see a wide pool of people who hem and haw and can't decide between either of them as politically, they're nothing alike.
PJF
Well-Known Member
There's no influencing the close minded.
Well, I'll keep trying with you.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Far left? Most of the tweets I post are either clips from Trump’s press conferences or quotes from Never Trump Republicans and historians. Those are “Far Left?”
Could you define what “Far Left” means? I definitely wasn’t a Bernie supporter and he’s typically considered “Far Left” on this forum. I do support universal health care and have been pretty vocal about it in the past. Is that really considered far left? It’s something that polls show is supported by the majority of America. Is the majority of America far left then? So I’m curious what “Far Left” means.
And could you show me a few of those “Far Left” tweets I’ve posted? I really would like to know. Recently I’ve been called an establishment Democrat by supporters of Bernie. In one DM I was called too conservative to be considered a Democrat by another. And now a “Far Left” by this guy. Interesting.
Avery
Well-Known Member
Far-left is a stretch and I'll accept that. Left-leaning, definitely, but that's your platform. People like Kyle Griffin/Chris Hayes, organizations like CAP Action, they definitely aren't moderate by any stretch of the imagination. To your credit, I don't think you necessarily push a far-left agenda, but probably more an anti-Trump one as you've also re-tweeted moderate Never-Trumpers like Charlie Sykes. So yeah, a poor choice of wordplay on my part so point taken.
In this environment, I think it's also a fair point that it feels like we really have two ideologies and bucket them all into far-left or far-right. Any D is considered the former, any R the latter with no sway in between. We definitely think of networks in the same manner such as MSNBC/Fox News and online media like Huffington Post/Drudge Report. The moderate arm of either party has been effectively silenced.
I consider myself a moderate as I'm culturally progressive but conservative in terms of fiscal responsibility. I could vote either D or R in many cases, but in this environment, if I were to say I'm voting for Trump, I'd be labeled by D's as a racist and a hillbilly. If I were to vote for Biden, the view from R's is that I'm a nancy boy and a city slicker.
And let the record show that I'm voting for Biden because I'm embarrassed by our government every day. With six hours of Zoom calls a day across the world where I chat with global co-workers, I can unequivocally say that America is the laughing stock of the world.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Okay. Thanks for your response. I think it's pretty dangerous to label anti-Trump posters as promoters of the far-left agenda. I see it differently, especially on this board. You have Trumpers and everything else. That everything else includes Anti-Trump Republicans, moderate Democrats, and Democratic Socialists primarily. And most on this board fall into the "everything else category", wouldn't you agree?
I also think you're being unfair when comparing Fox News to MSNBC and Huffington Post to Drudge. Fox News, especially at night, is so much more dangerous and radical than anything on MSNBC. Just last night Tucker Carlson was questioning the # of deaths associated with Covid, Hannity was suining the NY Times, and Ingraham was retweeting VDare. Do you know what VDare is? You don't see that type of paranoia and extremism from MSNBC, Huffington Post, and CNN.
And as far as Drudge, I've never considered him to be a reputable source of information.
I think you're painting with waaaayyy too broad of a brush. You're associating Never Trumpers to the "Far Left." You're acting as if there is an equal divide between "Far Left" and those on the "Far Right" who still defend Trump. And I think comparing mainstream media sources to those on the far right is just unfair. CNN and MSNBC is far more mainstream and moderate than Fox News or Drudge.
Avery
Well-Known Member
On your first point, I think you have hardcore Trumpers where the grass is always green, people who vote for Trump because they like the economy, moderates who vote for Biden because they're embarrassed, and people who will vote for Biden as they agree with him as a mainstream Democrat.
Fox News at night? 100% agree with you. Those shows are trash but that's nothing new. I do think shows like Chris Hayes/Rachel Maddow can be slightly inflammatory and run with stories that are a bit sensational, but not to the degree of what's being pushed by Hannity/Dobbs/Ingraham. Drudge has always been about sensationalism as he just wants clicks.
I do believe we are divided nation though where the vast majority of people bucket us into one team or the other. We're all different shades of grey so that's not fair to do, but it's the reality of how we're interpreted by each other.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure I believe her.
Why is she cancelling all of her scheduled interviews? Why is she now backtracking on her complaint against Biden? Why is her story changing seemingly every few days?
I understand why Trump wants to keep this going, so it can become the new “emails” attack for this campaign season. I understand why Bernie Bros want to keep this going, because they just can’t accept that they lost. But I’m not sure Reade is credible. Everything she’s done recently seems to discredit her to me. Have you read this USA Today article?
IMO, it’s time to move on. And it’s well past time Bernie Bros try to **** over this election to Trump.
Everything you quoted is completely consistent with a young woman who was betrayed and traumatized by a man she respected and believed in. It did nothing to discredit her.
I don't know whether or not she's telling the truth but thought the USA Today article made a lot of points worth considering.
Red
Well-Known Member
It did that. It was news to me, and, JMO, introduced reasonable doubt of her claim, pending a deeper look at some of those points.