The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

[The Thriller]

There is no bottom

 

[Avery]

Well, it’s begun.

As if 2020 and 2021 weren’t awful enough.

 

[str8line]

I know you're not anything credible,always have. Straight out of the activist stooge pool.

If you had a brain, you would have seen a few posts up in this thread, and elsewhere, that I said Putin would take the posture of the humanitarian, and the protector of the Russian ethnic separatist portion of the Donbas population. I said we were creating this sort of "opportunity" for him byh influencing or supporting Zelensky not to negotiate. You apparently missed the fact, which I noted last spring, almost ayear ago, that a Ukraniian military honcho was lining up Ukrainian forces to go in and put the separatist movement out.

So if the Ukraine jthreatens its own people and they are going to be pushed out of their country into Russia, that means Putin has a humanitarian crisis with hundreds of thousandsw of refugees.

The administration in Ukraine prior to Zelensky, did a cease fire with a promise to meet with the separatists and negotiate. zelensky rrepudiated that accord,the Minsk Accord, saying it was something the prior administration agreed to under duress.

The facts on the ground, as best as I can believe, are that there are not many Russian nationals from Russia who have joined with the separatists, but a lot of Ukrainians from other parts of the Ukraine who have gone there to join the separatists. I can't evaluate who they are or why. Maybe they are largely people with political or cultural ties to Russia. I would believe Russia has encouraged or even instigated the "separatists".

But then comes the question of why Russia is doing this, and you missed the post I did yesterday about the history behind Russia's position.

Russia has decades' of grief to vent about what we have done in the former USSR holdings, which they have taken without strong resistance because of their weak position. But Putin has significantly improved his military, and he now has China's backing. Russia is supporting China's claims over Taiwan, which appear to be a coming invasion of the island that never was Chinese territory. It was Formosa before Chiang Kai Shek evacuated his forces to that island. Japan had held it for some time.

Biden's debacle in Afghanistan has led our major opponents to believe we will do nothing, and Biden is doing nothing but bearding the Russian bear by not getting Zelensky to pull back and negotiate. We keep screaming about Russia's movements, but you're an idiot if you don't know either what Ukraine has done or why Russia is concerned with what is going on. Or why they think they can run this crap on us.

you, Red, Biden and most of our Establishment bureaucrats ate taking us into another stupid war. A war we could avoid if we used our good sense. Without ceding Ukraine to Russia. If we were not just corrupt brokers of kingpins in corrupt countries, we could have credible and beneficial influence, not just get ourselves bogged down in wars we can't win.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Putin was going to use his military the second he felt he could, before he dies. Turns out China has been emboldened in his lifetime by Walmart. It all goes back to Walmart.

 

[Avery]

Fox News and similar outlets think so little of their viewers that they’ll just pretend that isolating Ukraine and propping up Putin weren’t part of the 2016 GOP platform even though it happened and wasn’t a secret.

Minds of goldfish.

 

[Archie Moses]

Honest question, should we be scared?

 

[Avery]

Honest question, should we be scared?

Personal safety, no. Some WW3 with Russia and China on one side and NATO powers on the other isn’t in the cards.

Global stock markets will get further crippled which won’t help economic efforts so inflation will continue to be a prolonged issue as well as dwindling returns.

Ukraine has asked for financial support and sanctions to protect themselves, but the reality is that Russia will likely take the country if we just let things go unchecked.

Putin will just pass the brunt of the sanctions to his people just like he always has.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Fox News and similar outlets think so little of their viewers that they’ll just pretend that isolating Ukraine and propping up Putin weren’t part of the 2016 GOP platform even though it happened and wasn’t a secret.

Minds of goldfish.

You must be living in an alternate universe. Here is reality: During Dubya Russia rolled in to take Georgia. During Obama Russia rolled in to take Crimea. Now during Biden Russia has rolled in to take Ukraine. Only one President caused Russia to stop.

That wasn’t coincidence. Trump was the first President to ship lethal weapons in to Ukraine. Trump also sanctioned the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and any company who worked on it because of the leverage that pipeline would give to Russia by circumventing Ukraine. Then Biden came in to office and on May 19, 2021 Biden dropped all Nord Stream 2 sanctions to let Russia continue building the pipeline. Now Biden in the last few days has reinstituted the Nord Stream 2 sanctions because Trump was correct.

It wasn’t just Nord Stream 2 that Trump sanctioned. Trump issued more sanctions on Russia, Russian companies, and Russian oligarchs than any President in history. It was not dumb luck that Putin stopped for the four years of Trump.

"during Trump’s four years in power, a record forty-plus rounds of sanctions have been slapped on Russia. Many of them are enshrined in law, meaning they are here to stay."

Trump May Be Leaving, But Russia Sanctions Will Stay

Sanctions are becoming a form of economic regulation in this era of new protectionism. By virtue of its unique position in the world, the United States has the most opportunities to exercise this kind of regulation in its own interests.

carnegiemoscow.org

Normally when I hear this kind of nonsense about the 2016 GOP candidate propping up Russia, it is coming from absolute morons who can’t recognize that their twitter feed may have had bad information. Yes Trump didn’t always say mean things about Putin, Trump wanted dirt on his opponent and weapons were delayed 84 days but Trump shipped the weapons in to Ukraine and was the first President to do so. I’m disappointed with your repeating this obvious falsehood Avery because normally you are more receptive to a broader set of information sources. Biden was wrong to signal to Russia by lifting the sanctions on Nord Stream 2 that we were returning to Obama era permissiveness, and the Russian incursion into Ukraine may be a direct result.

Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election

President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.

www.reuters.com

 

[LogGrad98]

Fox News and similar outlets think so little of their viewers that they’ll just pretend that isolating Ukraine and propping up Putin weren’t part of the 2016 GOP platform even though it happened and wasn’t a secret.

Minds of goldfish.

Nah, scientists have proven that goldfish have better memories. And better skills of discernment than most Americans. After all goldfish won't eat their own ****.






Yes the bar is that low.

 

[Avery]

You must be living in an alternate universe. Here is reality: During Dubya Russia rolled in to take Georgia. During Obama Russia rolled in to take Crimea. Now during Biden Russia has rolled in to take Ukraine. Only one President caused Russia to stop.

That wasn’t coincidence. Trump was the first President to ship lethal weapons in to Ukraine. Trump also sanctioned the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and any company who worked on it because of the leverage that pipeline would give to Russia by circumventing Ukraine. Then Biden came in to office and on May 19, 2021 Biden dropped all Nord Stream 2 sanctions to let Russia continue building the pipeline. Now Biden in the last few days has reinstituted the Nord Stream 2 sanctions because Trump was correct.

It wasn’t just Nord Stream 2 that Trump sanctioned. Trump issued more sanctions on Russia, Russian companies, and Russian oligarchs than any President in history. It was not dumb luck that Putin stopped for the four years of Trump.



Normally when I hear this kind of nonsense about the 2016 GOP candidate propping up Russia, it is coming from absolute morons who can’t recognize that their twitter feed may have had bad information. Yes Trump didn’t always say mean things about Putin, Trump wanted dirt on his opponent and weapons were delayed 84 days but Trump shipped the weapons in to Ukraine and was the first President to do so. I’m disappointed with your repeating this obvious falsehood Avery because normally you are more receptive to a broader set of information sources. Biden was wrong to signal to Russia by lifting the sanctions on Nord Stream 2 that we were returning to Obama era permissiveness, and the Russian incursion into Ukraine may be a direct result.

Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election

President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.

www.reuters.com

The Mueller report couldn’t find any direct link that Trump ordered such an initiative, but let’s not pretend that when you surround yourself with guys like Manafort and allowing individuals aligned with you vast range to make policy decisions that the campaign was largely sympathetic to Russia.

No one person or admin is the sole reason we’re here today, but it’s disingenuous to lay the blame on one when history shows many missteps along the way.

 

[Archie Moses]

Personal safety, no. Some WW3 with Russia and China on our side and NATO powers on the other isn’t in the cards.

Global stock markets will get further crippled which won’t help economic efforts so inflation will continue to be a prolonged issue as well as dwindling returns.

Ukraine has asked for financial support and sanctions to protect themselves, but the reality is that Russia will likely take the country if we just let things go unchecked.

Putin will just pass the brunt of the sanctions to his people just like he always has.

Thanks, man. That's pretty much what I've read too.

 

[Archie Moses]

Nah, scientists have proven that goldfish have better memories. And better skills of discernment than most Americans. After all goldfish won't eat their own ****.






Yes the bar is that low.

You son of a bitch bastard you. Haha

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The Mueller report couldn’t find any direct link that Trump ordered such an initiative

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about here. The Mueller report had nothing to do with confirming sanctions issued against Nord Stream 2 or any other sanctions because they were all very public with most of them being passed into actual law. The weapons shipment to Ukraine too were very public. Nothing I wrote about with regard to numbers of sanctions or dates of invasions under Bush, Obama, or Biden is in any way debated and none of it had anything to do with the Mueller report.

Are you reduced to anti-Trump non sequiturs to distract from how monumentally Biden has bungled this? Biden *IS* the President. Biden eased the sanctions on Nord Stream 2. Biden owns this.

 

[Red]

you've passed up a chance to demonstrate a cool head or a reasonable attitude.

But you did not pass on the chance to accuse me of wanting war. You did not pass on the chance to thereby imply that I want to see the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainians, which is what this war will bring. My wife and I were watching the coverage yesterday. I found myself shedding tears. I’m not ashamed to admit it, I thought “the world is hurting so much, so much, why is this madman doing this”? And I cried. I’m doing the same now, damn it! While talking to another madman, with the balls to ask ME to be reasonable. So go ahead and report me, as you mused you might do. You can rot in hell…..

 

[Avery]

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about here. The Mueller report had nothing to do with confirming sanctions issued against Nord Stream 2 or any other sanctions because they were all very public with most of them being passed into actual law. The weapons shipment to Ukraine too were very public. Nothing I wrote about with regard to numbers of sanctions or dates of invasions under Bush, Obama, or Biden is in any way debated and none of it had anything to do with the Mueller report.

Are you reduced to anti-Trump non sequiturs to distract from how monumentally Biden has bungled this? Biden *IS* the President. Biden eased the sanctions on Nord Stream 2. Biden owns this.

The Mueller report showed that Trump itself had no direct implication that Trump asked for a pro-Ukraine stance as part of the GOP platform.

This has nothing to do with sanctions, pipelines, weapon shipments, etc. not talking about that, simply talking about the above point.

I'll reiterate again that Biden is president, but this aggression today simply didn't start with one person or administration and is a compounding effect of many years. To suggest otherwise would be revisionist history.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

To suggest otherwise would be revisionist history.

It is not nearly as revisionist as what you are claiming the Mueller report was. The Mueller report was split into two halves, with the first half finding no definitive proof of collusion with Russia during the 2016 campaign and the second half finding possible areas of obstruction of justice. The report had nothing to do with having pro or anti Ukrainian stance.

 

[Rubashov]

Who'd imagine you wouldn't.

Red lost his temper. I should report it maybe. What the hell.

It's better to leave it there and let the world see what you are.

I don't believe Putin is any kind of nice guy, or fundamentally good in his politics. I think there are likely some dead dissidents moldering in ditches here or there underneath the snow. For a while I had jhopes the comedian, Zelensky, would actually clean up some corrupt things in Ukraine. But in recent years he has refused to sit down with the separatists as the previous administration promised, saying it was something Ukraine was coerced into doing. Putin sent a number of messages to Zelensky asking him to do that. But that, in effect, would validate the separatists.

That would have been on par with, say, King George getting on a ship and going to boston after the Tea Party. If old King George had done that, and saw to it that jBritish Citizens in the Colonies had all their rights protected under the Magna Carta, there would have been no revolution.

But Zelensky and Biden are makeing the same kind mistake Kuing George made. Bowing to corporate and financial interests to exert power of weaker people around the world.

Some people in my family have Ukranian ties. A niece did her mission there. A brother documented the removal of Russian nukes. I also have ties to Formosa, or Taiwan as some want to call it. I don't want these wars.

You have to be strong to deter wars, and you can't do crap like Biden is doing. I know we have a media that's pushing us to positions that will likely trigger wars or lose ground geopolitically.

But I am a bit of an ignoramus too. And I'm not ever going to make friends of you or Red, who once said he would be shooting me when "The Resistance" gets to my camp. How much energy you have poured into just trying to discredit me or silence me.

It's a waste of your time. JazzFanz is a dying site Your efforts here seriously backfire. You lose ten to one the people you try to influence.


Well, maybe I'll go over to the sports threads for our grand playoff push. But really, how are we going to beat the Warriors or Suns.? We might be the third best team in the league. Maybe we are not quite as prone to lose our players to injuries, and maybe we have fewer players that will just freeze on the ball when it needs to be put in the basket.

Find it ****ing hilarious that the far right in the US are against war in Russia after the last you know 100 years of history. Just how badly is Trump leveraged and owned by Putin?

How does it feel to support a former kgb agent that supplied Red Army Faction and bader mienhoff? Who as president of a foreign power has interfered considerably in the last 3 US elections and actively works to destabilise democracies around the world? (The CIA must be pissed the Russians have moved in on their turf.)

I truly believe we are at a precipice, its 1935, but the world is worse off because people are more selfish, more cynical and considerably less interested in concepts like truth, freedom, society and the common good for all.

 

[Rubashov]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Putin was going to use his military the second he felt he could, before he dies. Turns out China has been emboldened in his lifetime by Walmart. It all goes back to Walmart.

Whats wrong with ****ing best buy?

 

[One Brow]

no definitive proof of collusion

Collusion is not a crime, so of course Mueller didn't bother discussing it.

It's not like examples of collusion are hard to find. The infamous meeting in Trump Tower is pretty straight-forward collusion.

 

[babe]

Red is one of the most patient and reasonable members of this board. So you know you’ve crossed a line if he’s this pissed off at you @babe

I've generally had more respect for Red than either Game or Thriller because he can usually be counted on to have some links and other sources to support his post, and most of the time had that better demeanor. this time he got mad.

I have never been one to try to just run off anyone with actual opinions. I do resist unsubstantiated slurs or insults.

Red is perhaps too old for me to hope to change his opinions, or his friends and connections. I think he knows the guy from the Brookings Institution who got mentioned in the investigation as an instigator of the Russian dossier fabrication. Red was out the gate with that thread before even the media got wind of it. Hillary was looking for help to discredit Trump and pulled some strings. Maybe it was Obama, who knows. But the perps all have proven Hillary connections.

Red, like some others, was out in arms after Trump won in 2016, vowing to give Trump hell. "The Resistance". And Red made a lot about that, and he did say something about a shooting war to win if necessary. And shooting me. Irt was a PM. I have it. hmmm. Should I go find it and reprint it?

No, Red can be a hothead.

I have some reservations about Trump. Andj everyone else. If he had been elected in 2020, it wouldn't have been an FBI-staged provocation from some weird dupes, about 20 paid agitators, and a hundred or so really stupid Trump fringe idiots storming the Capitol against. I open doors and a few complicit security operatives

It would have been lawyers going to court to prove Trump cheated, prove the Russians did it, and a lot of judges handing out gratuitous rulings. The dems woulda staged a protest of electors from disputed state results. But before all that, riots in many cities and on the White House lawn, maybe breaking in there as well.

That's all in the cards for "The Resistance".

I don't think the coup can be pulled off anymore. Public opinion, despite all the media and political rhetoric can do, has gone pretty hard against it. Itis actually expected, and regardless of poor representatives in government, it won't go over anymore.

It'll be war I think, here.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Find it ****ing hilarious that the far right in the US are against war in Russia after the last you know 100 years of history. Just how badly is Trump leveraged and owned by Putin?

How does it feel to support a former kgb agent that supplied Red Army Faction and bader mienhoff? Who as president of a foreign power has interfered considerably in the last 3 US elections and actively works to destabilise democracies around the world? (The CIA must be pissed the Russians have moved in on their turf.)

I truly believe we are at a precipice, its 1935, but the world is worse off because people are more selfish, more cynical and considerably less interested in concepts like truth, freedom, society and the common good for all.

You’d hope people would come together like folks did in the past but I’m not sure that is the world we live in anymore. We’d rather argue about which side of the political spectrum is more at fault and “news” outlets are more concerned about eyeballs than reporting.

We in some deep **** here.