Agreed. The fact of the matter is, regardless of what measures do or do not exist, somebody will be unhappy with it.
the real terroist the: TSA
- Thread starter DutchJazzer
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Agreed. The fact of the matter is, regardless of what measures do or do not exist, somebody will be unhappy with it.
Well, that argument can be turned upside down - The fact of the matter is, regardless of what measures exist, somebody will find a way around them and try to bring down an airliner.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Or terrorists will get smarter and decide that blowing away airliners is a thing of the past. Once they start targeting malls, arenas, and schools, then the crap really hits the fan.
It wasn't an argument. It was a statement. And it was more about politics than safety.
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Agoxlea
Guest
You realize the airlines aren't the same as the TSA. Last time the airlines were in charge of security was almost a decade ago. Pretty much every single one of your posts has assumed the airlines are in favor of these security measures when in fact it is the TSA that implemented them. How have you not been calle out on that in any of the 3 times you've gotten that wrong in this thread?
I'm completely speculating here, but I would imagine that if the airlines themselves were in charge of security, it would be just as strict (if not more so) and air travel would cost 3-4 times what it does now, after overhead, insurance, and factoring in that all but the biggest airlines would either go out of business, or be gobbled up by 2 or 3 major companies, making it a moot point for all us regular joes.
Again, that's only my conjecture. And one awesome run-on sentence.
The private industry can and will do things cheaper, more efficient and with less overhead than the government. That's why even strategically important industries such as defense, aircraft development and production and now even NASA (will be) are dominated by private contractors. All it takes is a government subsidy to offset the cost and it doesn't have to be that expensive.
It boggles the mind, doesn't it? Would it make you feel better if I told you I knew that already.
I wonder if you would feel differently if it was individual airlines that had implemented these measures?
I just think a little common sense goes a long way in these situations. Shortly after 9/11 we (my wife, 2 year old son, and myself) were flying to Japan. Our flight out of SLC was at 6:00 a.m. Back then they were randomly selecting passengers for additional security checks. My 2 year son's boarding pass came up a "winner" in that lottery. So I had to try to calm my tired, crying 2 year old while they searched him. Needless to say the whole situation was ridiculous and I'm surprised they didn't feel stupid doing it.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
That's insane, but you do make an obvious point though. Why the **** are the borders essentially wide open if they really care about our security? The Mexican border is one of the most dangerous places in the world and even friggin Hezbollah is coordinating with drug cartels down there now. They don't care about that for some reason. HMMMMMM.
This whole thing is a ruse. They haven't stopped one terrorist with this security. Not one. Why is nearly every foiled terrorism plot in the United States essentially the FBI baiting some dumbass into almost carrying out a plot and then arresting him? Why aren't things blowing up right and left in this country? Why is an airplane the sacred target of terrorists? We have mass congregations of people everywhere just waiting to get blown up. You'd think if terrorist threat was even close to as big a deal as they make it out to be, people would be getting blown up left and right. If somebody blew up a movie theater in random small town USA, they would be a lot scarier than a plane getting blown up to me.
Anyway, any arguments about just the airplanes are stupid. This stuff is being beta tested everywhere. Al Qaeda's gonna get you!
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Agoxlea
Guest
I would feel differently if it were implemented by the airlines, because I could vote with my wallet. This has already been addressed, but I think things would reach a cheaper, less invasive, and equally safe alternative if left up to the private airlines. As it is now my tax dollars pay for security no matter what. For the most part your posts seemed pretty reasonable, I just couldn't believe nobody called you out on that.
I'm sure they felt stupid doing it. That doesn't mean some jihadist hasn't thought about using his two year old son as a walking bomb.
Sloanfeld
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BZBKS1Iczg
There was a good Mallard Fillmore comic in the newspaper a few weeks ago about the Juan Williams situation. I can't find it online, I bet the Muslims threatened to kill the writer or something. The last line of the comic had him saying, "No, I get all EXCITED when I see a person dressed in Muslim garb on an airplane!" Funny stuff.
https://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011170033
Profiling yo.
There was a good Mallard Fillmore comic in the newspaper a few weeks ago about the Juan Williams situation. I can't find it online, I bet the Muslims threatened to kill the writer or something. The last line of the comic had him saying, "No, I get all EXCITED when I see a person dressed in Muslim garb on an airplane!" Funny stuff.
https://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011170033
Profiling yo.
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GVC
Well-Known Member
Hint: Michael Chertoff.
Seriously, as has been said, if this were a decision by the airlines, I (and other consumers) would have a choice. Instead, the Federal government has handed one of their boys a fat, unnecessary government contract at the GREAT expense of the American taxpayer. It's ****ing ridiculous.
The "assault" is not the issue. The misuse of public funds (to keep people even more fearful for virtually no reason) is.
DutchJazzer
Banned
thats why i dont pay that price i'm not traveling to THE USA for holiday i would really like to do it. but if i travel for holiday i wanna be relaxed and my first days would really be tense if i met situations like exsesive groping/ fingerprinting(being treated like a criminal)etc etc. so that would make a holiday experience at least go away. if it was for bisness trips i would have no problem with it so to say.
well to be fair israel who has more terrorist enemies than the usa for the last 50 years as we all know employs rigid security meausers for example are luggage goes introe a bomb/compression chamber throw some radiofrequencies at it and see if it explodes. on every airpot in the whole wide world that has flight to and from israel this procedure is followed. i would not mind if my luggage is locked and thrown in such a chamber. thats a way that would make the least people unhappy. and it works.
but what does TSA(team secual assualt) do they expect of you to not lock ur luggage and that anyone working there could open it up and take a look around in it without you being present(thats a fact here at amsterdam schiphol airport with flights going to the usa). so let me get this straight some low life who could not get into college and has a A CRAPPY JOB(and yes i call it a CRAPPY job) who gets paid 14 dollars and hour can go in my luggage without me being present. so lets say i went on a shopping holiday i have shopped my *** off have some nice expensive stuff in there i am supposed to trust a bunch of thugs not to take anything. and if i lock it they break it open. correct me if im wrong but isnt that a OBVIOUS violation of the 4th ammendment, although to be honest as a non american i dont think i have that right.
so i guess you are wrong whit your follwoing statement
or am i wrong to think people would object to their luggage being put in a bombchamber and go through a compression decompression cycle being bombarded by radio frequency trying to set the bomb of if you got one.
another example is that with isralei airline there is NO WAY into the cockpit. just NO WAY while the plane is in the air. wouldnt that have twarted 911 the hijcakers can hijcak the plane all they want start killing hostages what would the body count be 200-300 per plane. but they would NOT have control over the airplane to fly it in a building and murder a couple of thousand people. would somebody be unhappy that there is no way into the cockpit during flight.
welll this proves there are ways to make air travel safe (you can check EL AL reputation and everything) nothing has gone wrong in like FOREVER.
and it Works (or israel has no enemies). point is the tsa is doing what is call theather security. just doing it for show to show that they are doing something. only critic israeli airport security is gettin is "racial profiling" or to be exact religion profiling
lol imagine going into a mall needing to go through airport like security. and still terorist could by the checmicals and stuf needed inside the mall to do some damage. then the counter measure will be if you buys osmething in the mall you get it when ur outside. then they will just start to attack the mall with rocketlauncher, sorry for posting this ridiculous bit just had a scenario like this in my head wich made me laugh.
pretty fun thread to read. as i only see this problem from a far(the media) which gives as someone stated is a hyperbole. but pretty intersesting reading some comments from regular people(jazz fanz)
sorry again if it makes it hard to read.
Yeah, I was kind of waiting to get called on it. +1 to you.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
You think we should watch videos from the G-20 summit in Toronto to prepare ourselves?
GVC
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if you're joking, but that wouldn't be a bad start. I was actually in Toronto that weekend, and drove by the fence one night. Unbelievable.
In the last 2 days I walked down through SLC and LAX security. No pad downs, no full body scanners. The SLC had the millimeter wave scanners there (terminal 1) but didn't use them and we had to walk through the plain ole metal detectors. Too bad i forgot to tie the plastic explosive to my nuts (to the NSA agent reading this - it was a joke. I repeat, it was a joke). May be I am incredibly lucky, or may be the whole thing has been overblown. Or may be they are just playing extra sensitive.