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The Utah Jazz and Tanking

zbone said:
The solution would be just having 2 or 3 different lottery types.
For example:
1. All 30 teams get equal chance
2. Current system
3. Non playoff teams get lottery balls according to their record. Better record - more balls.

Then when regular system is done you flip the coin and choose the lottery method and then draw the lottery.
Now before season start no GM knows if it's worth tanking or not this season but at the same time talent tends to land to truly weak teams.
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In theory a lottery is fair, but again, I don't trust any NBA lottery. That's why I'm all for Chawx's non-lottery system.
 
BENTLEY said:
In theory a lottery is fair, but again, I don't trust any NBA lottery. That's why I'm all for Chawx's non-lottery system.
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Also no matter what system you come up with people will find a way to try and manipulate it. That is human nature and will not change.
 
theNBAnerd said:
chawx, problem there is, you'll have mediocre teams tanking early. if you're a team like the jazz or wolves and you know you don't have what it takes to compete for a title THIS year, then you have great incentive to suck early in the season.

that's why i said... any revised system pretty much just rewards teams for being bad at DIFFERENT times... but do nothing to eliminate altogether the idea of strategy and purposefully being bad at some point.
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Ok, but if this is the only hole in Chawx's idea then it's a pretty awesome idea. The ONLY time a franchise could try and manipulate the system by purposely losing games is at the beginning of the season. The beginning is the season is when teams are most hopeful. Golden State began this year guaranteeing the playoffs. It's only after their initial playoff dream fell short that they decided to tank. With Chawx' system they have zero incentive to continue to lose games.

Love it. Never happen.
 
"beginning of the season" no, you are not makign sense. define beginning of the season

terrible idea, teams will still tank, and the whole purpose of having the draft help league parity will be destroyed./
 
by Chawx's figures , the "non-tanking" part of the season will only be about one seventh of the season, and the amount will vary according to each team , leading to all sorts of complications that will lead to further problems.
 
I didn't see this posted yet, but this is what Shane Battier has to say about tanking:

ShaneBattier
"GMs have every incentive to secure ping pong balls. They care more about keeping their job than the integrity of the game."
"Have a tournament with all the non-playoff teams and you know what? Winner gets the first pick."
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I like the idea of a tournament for losers, or a mid season tournament as Frank Layden has long advocated. The NBA storylines are old and stale, anything to mix it up would be a relief.
Also, This thread is not the place for it, but I can't help but point out the hypocrisy of Shane Battier, who is part of the "I'm taking my talents to south beach" crowd now 'defending' the integrity of the game.
 
mellow said:
I didn't see this posted yet, but this is what Shane Battier has to say about tanking:



I like the idea of a tournament for losers, or a mid season tournament as Frank Layden has long advocated. The NBA storylines are old and stale, anything to mix it up would be a relief.
Also, This thread is not the place for it, but I can't help but point out the hypocrisy of Shane Battier, who is part of the "I'm taking my talents to south beach" crowd now 'defending' the integrity of the game.
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How is that hypocritical? How dare a FA choose where he wants to play. He should have joined a crappy team and been proud of losing!
 
mellow said:
I didn't see this posted yet, but this is what Shane Battier has to say about tanking:

"GMs have every incentive to secure ping pong balls. They care more about keeping their job than the integrity of the game."
"Have a tournament with all the non-playoff teams and you know what? Winner gets the first pick."

I like the idea of a tournament for losers, or a mid season tournament as Frank Layden has long advocated.
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This sounds very similar to Chawx' idea. Northeast, I'm not saying this or any idea is perfect - just that there are better solutions to the obvious tanking problem we have now. Chawx' idea is really good. Sure people will try to work any system to their advantage but the way to work Chawx' system is pretty much to try and win games.
 
battier's solution is worse than chawx's, I'll admit that, but chawx's plan is really bad.
It'd be better to just make the ping pong balls random, as i suggested much earlier.

Why do you want a playoff worthy team to get the number one pick every year by tanking?
 
northeast said:
battier's solution is worse than chawx's, I'll admit that, but chawx's plan is really bad.
It'd be better to just make the ping pong balls random, as i suggested much earlier.

Why do you want a playoff worthy team to get the number one pick every year by tanking?
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What about the bottom 4 teams have the playoff? Though that would just encourage tanking to get into the bottom 4. Bottom line is that the current system is the best system. I really don't see how to improve it.
 
I still think the NBA should consider top players being injured though. For instance, Curry has missed a ton of games, the league should take that into consideration when determining placement. If your best player missed more than half of the games, you get bumped down 1 spot, if he missed more than 2/3's bumped down 2 spots, and if he plays in less than 10 games, bumped down 3 spots.
 
It would be impractical to administer such a system.
You could accomplish the same goal by having the picks be based on 2 or 3 years, to avoid the Duncan pick phenomena.

I could improve the current system, but there will always be a tradeoff between helping bad teams and avoiding tanking.

You could modify the current system to give less incentive to tank, but then the really bad teams will not have as good odds at getting the best picks. I think that would be the way to go.
 
northeast said:
battier's solution is worse than chawx's, I'll admit that, but chawx's plan is really bad.
It'd be better to just make the ping pong balls random, as i suggested much earlier.

Why do you want a playoff worthy team to get the number one pick every year by tanking?
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The current system does not reward organizations that do their best with what they got (thus producing a more competitive, superior product). The current system rewards the organizations with moronic or lazy GMs. The current system rewards lack of effort (thus producing a less competitive, inferior product). It's kinda like communism. There's no incentive to do well.

And, to repeat what Chawx repeated - all teams who make the playoffs are excluded from the lottery - just as it stands now.
All the non-playoff teams (the losers, if you will) compete to not be the biggest loser, but - like Battier mentioned - compete to be the best of of the losers. Reward them with a top pick and a decent team can compete with the top playoffs teams in just a few months. No more dynasties. Every year things could totally change up. If the top pick goes to the Bobcats or Sacramento - nothing changes. The top teams remain the top teams and Charlotte, Sacramento probably miss the playoffs again anyway - despite getting the top pick.

Eventually, Anthony DAvis, Demarcus Cousins, John Wall will be done with their initial contracts and bail on their original teams to go to better run organizations. Can you blame them? The current system sucks. We're stuck with it.

Chawx' rocks. It'll never happen.
 
As far as the worst teams I have no sympathy for them. They got get their butts in gear or contract their asses.

I love being a Jazz fan because in spite of the lack talent in some years they always compete. Chawx system would reward that. And we'd finally enjoy a championship.

Again, it'll never happen.
 
northeast said:
No, the best picks would go to teams that cheat the system, which the Jazz don't do.
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But how do they cheat the system? By losing games until they're eliminated from they playoffs, and then magically turn it on and win like crazy. First, how likely is it that a team will try to do this? And even if this is their season's game plan - how likely is it they will succeed?

It is far more difficult to manipulate this system than it is to manipulate the current system. Under the current system all you have to do is lose the most and you get top 4 pick. Rewarded with the best chance for the top pick. Admit it - this current system sucks. It rewards crap organizations that don't deserve it.
 
And manipulating Chawx' system = a superior, more competitive product.
Manipulating the current system = a race to tank, inferior, less competitive product.

I'm of the opinion that a superior product will be good for business. I think it's brilliant. Chawx for commissioner.
 
your system sucks worse.
It doesn't make any sense, teams will still tank, and the league's parity would be destroyed.
Go back and address some of the points that I have already made over and over.
 
BENTLEY said:
The current system does not reward organizations that do their best with what they got (thus producing a more competitive, superior product). The current system rewards the organizations with moronic or lazy GMs. The current system rewards lack of effort (thus producing a less competitive, inferior product). It's kinda like communism. There's no incentive to do well.

And, to repeat what Chawx repeated - all teams who make the playoffs are excluded from the lottery - just as it stands now.
All the non-playoff teams (the losers, if you will) compete to not be the biggest loser, but - like Battier mentioned - compete to be the best of of the losers. Reward them with a top pick and a decent team can compete with the top playoffs teams in just a few months. No more dynasties. Every year things could totally change up. If the top pick goes to the Bobcats or Sacramento - nothing changes. The top teams remain the top teams and Charlotte, Sacramento probably miss the playoffs again anyway - despite getting the top pick.

Eventually, Anthony DAvis, Demarcus Cousins, John Wall will be done with their initial contracts and bail on their original teams to go to better run organizations. Can you blame them? The current system sucks. We're stuck with it.

Chawx' rocks. It'll never happen.
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The incentive to do well is that you sell tickets. No one is going to watch the Bobcats because they are losing. Even if they draft Anthony Davis, his luster will wear off after a while if they are still losing.
 
Chaux's system just rewards teams who barely tank to get out of the playoffs. Jazz, Houston, and Denver, or any other fringe playoff team could just tank to barely get outside of the playoffs, then run house on the inferior teams. That is still tanking.
 
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