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This makes me happy.

Imo, if we really want to stop the flow of drugs we need to dry up the demand (getting back to possession). We have already shown that going after the supply is a losing battle. Take one dealer off the street and the demand remains, so the other dealers raise prices and it isn't long before a couple more get the idea to fill the gap and you get 2 or 3 in place of that one.

The problem is that by taking dealers off the street here, it's not really going after the supply. That's more going after the middle men. Truly going after the supply would mean taking some type of military action against the cartels.
 
The problem is that by taking dealers off the street here, it's not really going after the supply. That's more going after the middle men. Truly going after the supply would mean taking some type of military action against the cartels.

I would say the best way to control the supply is to legalize it and regulate it. Only allow domestically produced products that are produced according to our regulations. Get the criminal element out of the picture completely. We no longer consider the liquor industry to be run by criminals and thugs. It's a better situation, imho, to have business people controlling an industry that sells these types of products than cartels and thug gangs.
 
Is going after the supply a winning battle? I'd say it isn't. All the bases from every drug (except meth I think) come from plants. Plants are nearly impossible to eradicate. The south can't get rid of the Kudzu plant that was introduced from Japan in the early 20th century, and this is a plant that people are trying to eradicate that doesn't have a demand and that isn't being grown clandestinely and guarded by men with automatic weapons. Hell, my parents have been battling crabgrass for an eternity it seems in their yard.

Now from certain areas you can eliminate or greatly reduce the supply of something. Turkey was a prime growing area for illicit opium in the 70s but isn't anymore (interestingly enough, they are a prime area for licit opium used for, heh, "medication"). But opium production didn't just go away, it just got moved to Afghanistan. Then the Tailban put a "stop" to that in 2000, but they also had a ton of reserves in place so they were able to control and limit the supply and increase their profits (much like if someone hoarded Tickle Me Elmo dolls 10 years ago before Christmas would have made a killing on ebay). Eventually another country would have replaced that supply but the Taliban was booted out a year later and the Afghans just continued.

I know I'm not an economic genius, but I do know one thing. If there is a large enough demand for something and that product is not super duper rare (like enriched uranium) and easy to produce, there will be a demand for it. Reducing demand is the only way for it to stop, much like how cigarette sales have declined in this country despite them being totally legal.
 
All the bases from every drug (except meth I think) come from plants. Plants are nearly impossible to eradicate.

Meth was originally made from the plant Chinese Ephedra, Ephedra sinica. IMO, this was the real reason that ephedra was made illegal, not because it was a danger to people but rather to curb meth production. They just used public safety as the reason to criminalize it. That being said, synthetic ephedra in the form of psudoepherdrine (Sudafed) is now the primary source of meth I believe. This is why you can only buy so much at a time and you have to provide ID when you buy it.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are now growing the Ephedra plant for drug making reasons.

Interestingly enough, there is a form of Ephedra that grows wild here in Utah, Ephedra nevadensis AKA the Mormon Tea Plant. It doesn't have the alkaloids to make meth but supposedly it gives you an energy boost akin to coffee. It also cures venereal disease.
 
I would say the best way to control the supply is to legalize it and regulate it. Only allow domestically produced products that are produced according to our regulations. Get the criminal element out of the picture completely. We no longer consider the liquor industry to be run by criminals and thugs. It's a better situation, imho, to have business people controlling an industry that sells these types of products than cartels and thug gangs.

Then you damage society as a whole if drugs like meth, heroin, and cocaine can be purchased at a local dope shop. As I've said before, I can read with an open mind the arguments for marijuana; but am firmly against any legalization of hard narcotics.
 
Then you damage society as a whole if drugs like meth, heroin, and cocaine can be purchased at a local dope shop. As I've said before, I can read with an open mind the arguments for marijuana; but am firmly against any legalization of hard narcotics.

I'd be in favor of a trial period, where you have marijuana and hallucinogens on the open market.. see what happens to street crime. I think controlled prostitution should be legal as well (no druggies, no disease, controlled protected environment), because that seems to be an enabler for hard drug users.
 
Then you damage society as a whole if drugs like meth, heroin, and cocaine can be purchased at a local dope shop. As I've said before, I can read with an open mind the arguments for marijuana; but am firmly against any legalization of hard narcotics.

You really think that many more people would use meth, heroin and cocaine if instead of being able to buy it illegally they could buy it legally? I don't not use that stuff because it's illegal and/or I can't get it, I don't use it because I don't want to.
 
Is going after the supply a winning battle? I'd say it isn't. All the bases from every drug (except meth I think) come from plants. Plants are nearly impossible to eradicate. The south can't get rid of the Kudzu plant that was introduced from Japan in the early 20th century, and this is a plant that people are trying to eradicate that doesn't have a demand and that isn't being grown clandestinely and guarded by men with automatic weapons. Hell, my parents have been battling crabgrass for an eternity it seems in their yard.

Now from certain areas you can eliminate or greatly reduce the supply of something. Turkey was a prime growing area for illicit opium in the 70s but isn't anymore (interestingly enough, they are a prime area for licit opium used for, heh, "medication"). But opium production didn't just go away, it just got moved to Afghanistan. Then the Tailban put a "stop" to that in 2000, but they also had a ton of reserves in place so they were able to control and limit the supply and increase their profits (much like if someone hoarded Tickle Me Elmo dolls 10 years ago before Christmas would have made a killing on ebay). Eventually another country would have replaced that supply but the Taliban was booted out a year later and the Afghans just continued.

I know I'm not an economic genius, but I do know one thing. If there is a large enough demand for something and that product is not super duper rare (like enriched uranium) and easy to produce, there will be a demand for it. Reducing demand is the only way for it to stop, much like how cigarette sales have declined in this country despite them being totally legal.

sometimes you just crack me up!!! and I mean that in the chuckling sort of way

maybe we could try banning all plants? or maybe your folks need to approach their crabgrass situation a little differently - - maybe they should figure out a way to cultivate it, dry it, and roll crabgrass joints and create a market. who knows, if it caught on, they'd have all kinds of help with eradicating the weeds.

I too favor legalization of marijuana, and perhaps a few other substances as well - I'm not sure, I haven't thought about that as much. Just curious, though, if it were legalized, what would be the age? Would it be 18 like cigarettes in most places, or 21 like alcohol?
 
You really think that many more people would use meth, heroin and cocaine if instead of being able to buy it illegally they could buy it legally? I don't not use that stuff because it's illegal and/or I can't get it, I don't use it because I don't want to.

I think it's a safe assumption that more people would use it if it were legal. I'm not talking about people like you who have no desire to use it. I'm talking about people on the fringe or on the fence. You've got people out there that abuse scripts because "it's from a doctor and it's legal so it's ok". Now I'm not saying people would be lining up in droves to use meth, heroin, and coke; but I think the numbers of individuals who use would certainly increase due to the stigma of "illegality" being taken away. A line needs to be drawn somewhere.
 
In my opinion, which has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience, legalization would not see the significant up shoot of users that the keep-it-criminal crowd predicts.

Plus, it seems that the benefits of having a measure of control would outweigh the negative impact of fence-sitters, in the big picture.
 
I think your military camp system would work with some inmates, give them a reward (eminent release) for positive performance. But i think that system should be optional, and I think afterwards they should be enlisted into their own branch of military--it wouldn't be fair for non-convicts to have to subject themselves to convicts, some who will be reformed, others who will not be.

That's all we need is a criminal branch of the military.
 
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