Thoughts on Trading Bogdanvic

[KqWIN]

Hart doesn’t really fit the need. We can’t trade a wing for another guard.

Anderson is overrated as ****. I guarantee the dudes who are pimping him have very little experience actually watching him play, and are dazzled by some of the rises in his stats last year. I wouldn’t trade Bogie for him. And the idea that he’s a stopper is lol.

RoCo is probably declining beyond the level of interest. I’ve suggested him as a target long before you came aboard, but the idea might’ve passed it’s expiration date.

The other names you mentioned probably would’ve happened already if they were going to happen... but why don’t you put the nuts and bolts together and show us what a trade would look like at this point?

I know the hypothetical trade makes sense to you. You say it often. But it’s a deductive sort of logic you’re using.... Put it into some kind of real world scenario, or maybe put it in your signature.... cuz it’s pretty tiring to see you repeat this deduction for months on end.

I don't really understand the Hart argument. Are we defining a players fit by what we arbitrarily label as their position? What makes Hart a guard and Bogey/Clarkson a wing? Or do you have it the other way around? That label doesn't mean a thing, what matters is how they play. Hart is a big time grinder and competes on defense. He gets more rebounds than Clarkson/Bogey combined. He fits the need and trade concept fairly well as a valuable low usage player. His versatility and ability to fit into any of our lineups is a selling point to me.

Anderson has been a favorite of mine for years and yes, I have watched him play. Numerica seems to like him as well, maybe you should ask him if he's actually watched him play. You see, that argument doesn't really mean anything. I could just as easily say that anyone who thinks Anderson is overrated has little experience watching him play. It means nothing. You don't get make up reasons for another person to like/dislike a player, especially when they are not true and you have no clue if it's true. Anderson did have quite the offensive jump last season which is a reason why I really wanted him this summer, but throughout his entire career he's been a value low usage player and great defender.

Roco, I'm not too high on him myself, but he is the right idea as a player. I don't think he has been available or will be. HH mentioned a scenario where the Blazers trade CJ for Ben and that opens up a logical swap, and I could see that happening. I would do that trade if it was presented, but that's a real outlier scenario IMO.

The most realistic trade is for Hart. NOP is primed to make a terrible move and taking advantage of desperate, bad FO's is a huge market ineeficiency. I would move Bogey or Clarkson for Hart and he should come with extra sweetners. I don't think draft capital is a priority, but it's never a bad thing and you never know when we are going to overpay for another C. I think we could get Hart and at least one 1st. They have a whole mess of picks to make that trade work. Will it happen? Probably not, I don't think the FO is considering moving Bogey or Clarkson. I don't think the FO is looking to make any move, but that doesn't stop people from suggesting moves they think can help the team.

 

[NAOS]

I don't really understand the Hart argument. Are we defining a players fit by what we arbitrarily label as their position? What makes Hart a guard and Bogey/Clarkson a wing? Or do you have it the other way around? That label doesn't mean a thing, what matters is how they play. Hart is a big time grinder and competes on defense. He gets more rebounds than Clarkson/Bogey combined. He fits the need and trade concept fairly well as a valuable low usage player. His versatility and ability to fit into any of our lineups is a selling point to me.

Anderson has been a favorite of mine for years and yes, I have watched him play. Numerica seems to like him as well, maybe you should ask him if he's actually watched him play. You see, that argument doesn't really mean anything. I could just as easily say that anyone who thinks Anderson is overrate has little experience watching him play. It means nothing. You don't get make up reasons for another person to like/dislike a player, especially when they are not true and you have no clue if it's true. Anderson did have quite the offensive jump last season which is a reason why I really wanted him this summer, but throughout his entire career he's been a value low usage player and great defender.

Roco, I'm not too high on him myself, but he is the right idea as a player. I don't think he has been available or will be. HH mentioned a scenario where the Blazers trade CJ for Ben and that opens up a logical swap, and I could see that happening. I would do that trade if it was presented, but that's a real outlier scenario IMO.

The most realistic trade is for Hart. NOP is primed to make a terrible move and taking advantage of desperate, bad FO's is a huge market ineeficiency. I would move Bogey or Clarkson for Hart and he should come with extra sweetners. I don't think draft capital is a priority, but it's never a bad thing and you never know when we are going to overpay for another C. I think we could get Hart and at least one 1st. They have a whole mess of picks to make that trade work. Will it happen? Probably not, I don't think the FO is considering moving Bogey or Clarkson. I don't think the FO is looking to make any move, but that doesn't stop people from suggesting moves they think can help the team.

My statements about Anderson are full of meaning. That’s precisely why you were able to understand what I was saying and label it as an accusation. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.

As for Hart and the position question. I guess you’re going to have to ask Q. The jazz don’t have any established pattern of playing someone with Hart’s profile against the kind of wings we struggle with. And whenever Royce (defending, say, an SG) shifts Mitchell or Conley onto a larger wing, there have been problems. So, yeah.

Let’s play your “meaningless” thing just one more step further..... What kind of meaning is there in your sentence “NOP is primed to make a terrible move”? I’m assuming that since you said it, you should have some insider evidence that I don’t have. Would appreciate having my eyes opened.

 

[KqWIN]

My statements about Anderson are full of meaning. That’s precisely why you were able to understand what I was saying and label it as an accusation. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.

As for Hart and the position question. I guess you’re going to have to ask Q. The jazz don’t have any established pattern of playing someone with Hart’s profile against the kind of wings we struggle with. And whenever Royce (defending, say, an SG) shifts Mitchell or Conley onto a larger wing, there have been problems. So, yeah.

Let’s play your “meaningless” thing just one more step further..... What kind of meaning is there in your sentence “NOP is primed to make a terrible move”? I’m assuming that since you said it, you should have some insider evidence that I don’t have. Would appreciate having my eyes opened.

I think anyone who think's Anderson is overrated has never watched him play. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.

The Jazz do have an establish pattern of playing someone with Hart's profile against wings we struggle with. He is very similar to Royce in terms of his physical profile. Give Hart the same opportunites and talent around him, I think Hart could prove to be a better version of Royce. Conley or Mitchell guarding a bigger wing can only be solved by them guarding the smaller guard themselves or not playing at all. The reason why Hart makes sense is because his value as a player doesn't come from what he does as a scorer or ball hander. If he was moved for Bogey/Clarkson, I think he can fill into any of our existing lineups.

HH and I have talked about NOP being a prime trade target many times, and there's reason for that. NOP are in a high pressure situation to win and their GM is on the hot seat. In Hart's case specifically, it had been reported that he wanted a fresh this summer and the interesting contract structure he eventually agreed to didn't inspire much confidence in a long term partnership. All the recent reports out of NOP have not been good between Zion, Ball wanting out, ownership weirdness....there's a lot of smoke there and it's been going on for awhile. When a franchise is on the ropes that's a great opportunity to take advantage.

 

[LogGrad98]

Ain’t happening without draft capital. And we don’t have that capital. How does Bogey fit their timeline, like, at all?

Did you see the part where I said "if" and "might"?

 

[LogGrad98]

Who wouldn’t trade Bogey for Grant? Who would trade Grant for Bogey?

Did you miss part where I said "if" and "might"? Where did I imply Detroit was knocking down our door to give us Grant? I was making the point that outside of something like this there are no good options involving trading Bogey.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Did you miss part where I said "if" and "might"? Where did I imply Detroit was knocking down our door to give us Grant? I was making the point that outside of something like this there are no good options involving trading Bogey.

Alright well, there’s no “if” or “might”, so might as well sub Lebron in there.

 

[LogGrad98]

Alright well, there’s no “if” or “might”, so might as well sub Lebron in there.

We could actually make a bundle that might mean something to Detroit. We could offer everyone and every pick and have no shot at LeBron. Any you still missed the point. Trying a little too hard to start an argument.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We'll still be a taxpaying team so we won't have the full MLE, but his value is something to watch for sure.

Ah, right. Whoops.

If he continues to suck this year then that might not preclude any chance of striking a deal with the taxpayer MLE.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We could actually make a bundle that might mean something to Detroit. We could offer everyone and every pick and have no shot at LeBron. Any you still missed the point. Trying a little too hard to start an argument.

Alright, well the Jazz are pretty strapped on meaningful rebuilding capital so I still think it's way more in the realm of fantasy. Don't forget the Jazz still owe a first for the Conley deal (likely conveys in 2022) and owe a first to dump Favors (likely conveys in 2024). In light of the Stepien Rule, I am not sure if they can trade a 1st rounder before 2026, so I'm not sure how valuable that would be to Detroit.

 

[NAOS]

Did you see the part where I said "if" and "might"?

Those ifs and mights are too big, imo

 

[LogGrad98]

Those ifs and mights are too big, imo

That's the point. The point is we would have a hard time getting equal value back, let alone anyone like Grant who fills all our needs. And frankly of all the stars we could trade for Grant might be the most realistic but we still don't have any way to pull it off. So it's kind of silly to continue thinking of trades for Bojan when we'd really lose in any trade we could put together with him.

But damn Grant on this team and we would win multiple rings.

 

[NAOS]

I think anyone who think's Anderson is overrated has never watched him play. Now, am I able to back that accusation up with hard evidence? Obviously not. —But this is actually me giving you the benefit of the doubt. Because I wouldn’t think someone with your apparent basketball acumen would be pounding for Anderson for your stated reasons if you’d seen much of him. But apparently you have watched plenty. So I guess the argument shifts to the quality of your eyeballs...... but I’ll save my time since you’ll just say that it’s another argument without meaning.

The Jazz do have an establish pattern of playing someone with Hart's profile against wings we struggle with. He is very similar to Royce in terms of his physical profile. Give Hart the same opportunites and talent around him, I think Hart could prove to be a better version of Royce. Conley or Mitchell guarding a bigger wing can only be solved by them guarding the smaller guard themselves or not playing at all. The reason why Hart makes sense is because his value as a player doesn't come from what he does as a scorer or ball hander. If he was moved for Bogey/Clarkson, I think he can fill into any of our existing lineups.

HH and I have talked about NOP being a prime trade target many times, and there's reason for that. NOP are in a high pressure situation to win and their GM is on the hot seat. In Hart's case specifically, it had been reported that he wanted a fresh this summer and the interesting contract structure he eventually agreed to didn't inspire much confidence in a long term partnership. All the recent reports out of NOP have not been good between Zion, Ball wanting out, ownership weirdness....there's a lot of smoke there and it's been going on for awhile. When a franchise is on the ropes that's a great opportunity to take advantage.

I understand what you did there. How could that be?

On behalf of jazzfanz, I’d like to thank you for establishing an avatar who (a) illustrates how easily arguments without evidence can become circular, and (b) confuses circular arguments with meaninglessness. I’m not really sure why we needed the second one, but a little diversity is good.

Royce is definitely a weight class beyond Hart. That matters against the powerwings and the longer dudes. Hart would be a useful player, but he isn’t enough of an upgrade to get rid of our best shooter.

I see your circumstantial evidence about NOP.

 

[KqWIN]

I understand what you did there. How could that be?

On behalf of jazzfanz, I’d like to thank you for establishing an avatar who (a) illustrates how easily arguments without evidence can become circular, and (b) confuses circular arguments with meaninglessness. I’m not really sure why we needed the second one, but a little diversity is good.

Royce is definitely a weight class beyond Hart. That matters against the powerwings and the longer dudes. Hart would be a useful player, but he isn’t enough of an upgrade to get rid of our best shooter.

I see your circumstantial evidence about NOP.

I just got a new mechanical keyboard and I'm totally geeked out about typing on it. I appreciate you for giving me the opportunity to restate my reason, rational, and evidence several times over and over. It is circular when you present your rationale, which is informed by statistics and a logical thought process, and it is met with something along the lines of "you're a downer" or "you haven't watched" because that's not a real counter argument and doesn't add anything to discussion.

Josh Hart's toughness might be the most defining aspect of his game. He guards everyone, rebounds better than most bigs, and no matter who he's guarding he adds a lot to the defense. Certainly an upgrade on defense over Bogey/Clarkson who he would be replacing. I think that defensive upgrade would be worth it when compared to the offensive loss. I would be extremely confident in our offense if we moved on from one of those scorers. Bad timing after last nights game, but this team has proven their ability to score a man down.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

I’d trade Bogey for Kyle Anderson next year if the Grizzlies want to do that. Next year. If the Grizzlies want to do that.

Jimmy Two Times.

"I'm gonna go get the papers. Get the papers.

 

[NAOS]

I just got a new mechanical keyboard and I'm totally geeked out about typing on it. I appreciate you for giving me the opportunity to restate my reason, rational, and evidence several times over and over. It is circular when you present your rationale, which is informed by statistics and a logical thought process, and it is met with something along the lines of "you're a downer" or "you haven't watched" because that's not a real counter argument and doesn't add anything to discussion.

Josh Hart's toughness might be the most defining aspect of his game. He guards everyone, rebounds better than most bigs, and no matter who he's guarding he adds a lot to the defense. Certainly an upgrade on defense over Bogey/Clarkson who he would be replacing. I think that defensive upgrade would be worth it when compared to the offensive loss. I would be extremely confident in our offense if we moved on from one of those scorers. Bad timing after last nights game, but this team has proven their ability to score a man down.

Lol. You’re such an original. Definitely never seen an argument for the players you’ve suggested acquiring. Or all the stats you’ve been citing.

 

[NAOS]

We’d definitely been taking serious advantage of the Pels if we swapped Bogie for Hart and nabbed a 2nd rounder. Eyeroll. But if they’re gonna expose their neck like that, then you gotta chop it off.

 

[fishonjazz]

"sometimes" is very good choice of words here. we can use a guy who could play solid D "sometimes". Instead, we have guys like Bogey, JC and even Jingles who couldn't play D at anytime. so what happen when our best defender Rudy and Royce were having off nights defensively, who's gonna step up?

Actually the guys you mentioned play good defense sometimes too. Royce gets beat so so much on defense


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[KqWIN]

We’d definitely been taking serious advantage of the Pels if we swapped Bogie for Hart and nabbed a 2nd rounder. Eyeroll. But if they’re gonna expose their neck like that, then you gotta chop it off.

You’re may or may not see or agree with my arguments or reasoning. I have no idea because you always argue against things you made up yourself just like this.

 

[NAOS]

You’re may or may not see or agree with my arguments or reasoning. I have no idea because you always argue against things you made up yourself just like this.

Perhaps you’re giving yourself a tad too much credit for reasoning skills? How are you proposing we acquire Hart?

You can throw in some stats here, too

 

[KqWIN]

Perhaps you’re giving yourself a tad too much credit for reasoning skills? How are you proposing we acquire Hart?

You can throw in some stats here, too

You can read what I thought the Hart trade could look like. You asked the question already, I assumed you wanted the answer and gave it. But I guess you preferred to make up your own answer.