Tomic to the Jazz

[candrew]

How would Tomic compare to a Kaminsky coming out of the draft? I haven't seen anything but some highlight videos on Tomic, but feel I've got a pretty good grasp on Kaminsky and he's a guy I'd love to be our backup center/3rd big.

How's this assesment?
Shooting: Kaminsky by a fairly large margin, Tomic still a better shooter than our bigs though.
Ballhandling/Creating: Kaminsky by a small margin.
Passing: Tomic by a small margin, both better than the bigs we have.
Rebounding: Tomic by a very small margin.
Athleticism: About equal.
Defense: About equal for now, I'd say Kaminsky better on ball/perimeter and Tomic a bit better as a help defender.
With Kaminsky having a bit more room for development and Tomic having an experience edge.

I feel like I prefer Kaminsky cause I think he could play with either Gobert or Favors, but Tomic I really only see fitting with Favors.

I don't dislike Kaminsky but I regularly see him in the high teens to mid 20's in drafts now. Things will probably turn around in a month - I think he'll have a huge tournament; but unless The Jazz are trading down to pick up another asset you can't blow a top 10 pick on Kaminsky.

 

[bigmike]

Kanter trade makes a lot more sense now. Not that I was opposed to it before, but clearly this is something the FO knew was likely to happen for a while now.

PG - Dante/Trey
SG - Alec/Rodney
SF - Gordon/Ingles
PF - Favors/Booker
C - Rudy/Tomic

I mean - all we're really signing/drafting for is depth across the board OR a star talent. Pretty exciting times in Jazzland, the playoffs are a fair expectation in 2015-2016.

 

[Eminence]

I don't dislike Kaminsky but I regularly see him in the high teens to mid 20's in drafts now. Things will probably turn around in a month - I think he'll have a huge tournament; but unless The Jazz are trading down to pick up another asset you can't blow a top 10 pick on Kaminsky.

Dang, I hadn't checked in awhile, so I was figuring late lotto on him (so not too much of a reach for us at the 10ish spot). If he could really drop to the 20 spot that does change a bit.

 

[LogGrad98]

Kanter trade makes a lot more sense now. Not that I was opposed to it before, but clearly this is something the FO knew was likely to happen for a while now.

PG - Dante/Trey
SG - Alec/Rodney
SF - Gordon/Ingles
PF - Favors/Booker
C - Rudy/Tomic

I mean - all we're really signing/drafting for is depth across the board OR a star talent. Pretty exciting times in Jazzland, the playoffs are a fair expectation in 2015-2016.

Isn't that what you always draft for?

 

[Dumb Bloke]

Why is everyone excited on Tomic and Neto just because we drafted them? I'd rather sign Boris Diaw or vets like Mike Miller than overpay just because draft rights.

 

[Doublea]

Kanter trade makes a lot more sense now. Not that I was opposed to it before, but clearly this is something the FO knew was likely to happen for a while now.

PG - Dante/Trey
SG - Alec/Rodney
SF - Gordon/Ingles
PF - Favors/Booker
C - Rudy/Tomic

I mean - all we're really signing/drafting for is depth across the board OR a star talent. Pretty exciting times in Jazzland, the playoffs are a fair expectation in 2015-2016.

I would have to assume that we draft a SF:

PG - Dante/Trey
SG - Alec/Rodney
SF - Gordon/draft pick/Ingles
PF - Favors/Booker/Evans
C - Rudy/Tomic

Do we even need to sign a free agent? Or if we do where do they plug into this team? It seems like we just need development to happen and hope we get solid players.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't dislike Kaminsky but I regularly see him in the high teens to mid 20's in drafts now. Things will probably turn around in a month - I think he'll have a huge tournament; but unless The Jazz are trading down to pick up another asset you can't blow a top 10 pick on Kaminsky.

Not sure where you guys are looking but he is in the late lotto for ESPN and draft express. He is right in the range of where our pick will be. I think people are sleeping on him a bit. He has a 36 PER right now... 5 points higher than okafor. He is pretty diverse offensively. It depends on tomic but I think frank the tank is for reals. He is a senior but he was good last year too... He leads one of the best teams in the country.

 

[Carbon13]

Tomic is not a good defender. For the few that dont know, get that into your head right now. He is however a willing passer, good post skills, and good all around offensive game.

He is a talent, and in the prime of his career. He makes our bench a lot better.

Get excited Jazz bros.

[video=youtube_share;9W0zv4Lg1Vw]https://youtu.be/9W0zv4Lg1Vw

I remember, years ago, he and Splitter used to do battle in the Euroleagues and Ante was on par. I think Ante will be great on the second team. We have a solid bench forming.

Trey, Rodney, Draft Pick, Book, ATomic Bomb.

 

[stitches]

...

First of all... :banghead: That explains our recent rumours of resigning Pleiss after being almost cut a few weeks ago.

Tomic is a very good basketball player, and probably has the kind of skillset that Gobert lacks (albeit RG has the phisical tools to become a beast on this league), he is indeed soft, but his time under XPascual, our coach, has toughtened him a lot, not only in his approach of the game (he dunks the ball a lot more finishing instead of the weak layups he used to, yet he still misses one shot a game where he chooses to lay up instead of the easy dunk) but in his mental attitude, he's agressive and resilient, is not shy of contact despite his thin, weak frame, and has become a decent defender on euroleague standards (will struggle to addapt to the faster NBA athletes).

He's really a poor man's Pau Gasol on offense, skilled, good hands, can finnish with both hands, quick on decision making, good passer out of the double team, very good on the PnR (kinda meh on the pick setting tho) and well, he's 7'1" barefoot with long arms, so he's tall, and last time i checked, that is kinda good for this game.

On D, well, he was a freaking disaster when he was on RM, but as i said, those years working with Pascual (OT, this guy would become a top5 NBA coach the moment he got a chance, he's THAT good) have fixed some of the holes he has, his lateral movement is decent for someone of his height, he's a good weakside blocker, his length bothers other centers and he doesnt miss many rotations... on the other side, he's bullied easily by stronger players who like to trample to the hoop (a la ZBO), cannot defend AT ALL outside 15-18 feet range and still makes the ocasional "lower your arms" fault when he should just kept those arms up.

Overall... smart, good piece to have, nice back up for RG, good for utah, i guess, they're building well.

Now... To watch Tibor Pleiss who is like the softened version of the early soft Tomic. No, seriously, Pleiss is like watching someone who has all the tools of the world to be freaking great!!! but instead of human blood he runs on distilled water.

Spanish paper @sport says Barcelona will look into upping Tomic salary to see if they can keep him. Current cont. seems to b 1.8M€ after tax

— Nuno Sá (@nsanba) March 6, 2015

2M USD after tax? How much will they give him and how much would we have to offer to get him? About 5-6M should be enough methinks.

 

[Deleted member 848]

...



2M USD after tax? How much will they give him and how much would we have to offer to get him? About 5-6M should be enough methinks.

Utah can only contribute a certain amount to a buyout-- the rest needs to come out of Tomic's pocket.


So, Utah's gotta offer a pretty big salary to Tomic. I would do 3 years, 5-7mill per.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coach Ellis]

...



2M USD after tax? How much will they give him and how much would we have to offer to get him? About 5-6M should be enough methinks.

That's in Euros. He's making about $3.4 million in US dollars. I'm guessing it'll take somewhere between $4-7 million on a 3 year deal. How much did Scola get? Somewhere between Scola and Mirotic.

 

[stitches]

That's in Euros. He's making about $3.4 million in US dollars. I'm guessing it'll take somewhere between $4-6 million on a 3 year deal. How much did Scola get?

1.8M Euros is 1.95M USD. The dollar is strong now...

 

[Coach Ellis]

1.8M Euros is 1.95M USD. The dollar is strong now...

My info was old, and probably before taxes tbh. It's really hard to get good info about what Euro contracts are. Still have never found a really good, accurate report about what his buyout consists of. If he's only making $2 million over in Spain, the the Jazz can make the jump a no brainer based on that first contract alone.

 

[candrew]

Not sure where you guys are looking but he is in the late lotto for ESPN and draft express. He is right in the range of where our pick will be. I think people are sleeping on him a bit. He has a 36 PER right now... 5 points higher than okafor. He is pretty diverse offensively. It depends on tomic but I think frank the tank is for reals. He is a senior but he was good last year too... He leads one of the best teams in the country.

Yeah, he's all over the place. CBS has him between 13 and 17. I've seen him on less reputable sites going at 27. Bottom line is, unless there is a move it looks like The Jazz will at best pick 9 at worst pick 12. I just don't see him going that high right now.

Like I said The wild card is the Tournament. Senior bigs usually have strong tournaments - and it helps that Kaminsky is regularly going up against guys 2 or 3 years younger than him. I can still remember when Big Country Bryant Reeves turned a 15-20 pick position into the top 6 when he took OKS to the Final Four. Same thing could happen here.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Seems like a good fit for our grind fest type half court offense. The big thing is just getting him over here on a long term deal before the huge cap increase. If he is a good backup, now you have parlayed an unusable asset into a valuable asset. Some team needing a center might give a late lottery, mid first round pick for him in two years.

 

[NCJazz]

Yeah, he's all over the place. CBS has him between 13 and 17. I've seen him on less reputable sites going at 27. Bottom line is, unless there is a move it looks like The Jazz will at best pick 9 at worst pick 12. I just don't see him going that high right now.

Like I said The wild card is the Tournament. Senior bigs usually have strong tournaments - and it helps that Kaminsky is regularly going up against guys 2 or 3 years younger than him. I can still remember when Big Country Bryant Reeves turned a 15-20 pick position into the top 6 when he took OKS to the Final Four. Same thing could happen here.

ree
If you see a website saying Kaminsky is going 27th it is not reputable. Kaminsky is 3x the player Reeves was.We are talking about player of the year in college who can do it all. I can easily see him going from 10 on. I have watched him a lot the last two years. He could easily be as good as some of the guys talked about in the top 10. Now if we are really bringing over Tomic that certainly would lesson the need for Kaminsky though. However, with Booker being a free agent after next year I still dont think you could count him out.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Tomic is crafty. He seems exactly like the kind of player that Quin would like. His size and defense are better than advertised and his scoring and passing will be solid off the bench. He's going to be a helluva bargain compared to what the Jazz would pay on the open market for a free agent of his caliber. Imo, the buyout and his salary will be viewed as a bargain in three years if the Jazz bring him over.

Kind of feel the same way about Neto. Think he could become our own Dragic-type of find. Both guys seem exactly like the type of players the Spurs consistently acquire and utilize. I believe that Quin would really make good use of them (which also frees up other cash/cap space and assets for a big move somewhere else.

 

[idiot]

A recap at this point:

Marca.com runs a piece saying Tomic's future may be up in the air with Barcelona since the Jazz might be willing to pay their share of the buyout. Yet Latin Jazz's points (in post #11) still seem valid. The article is based on a several months' old quote from Walt Perrin. There's nothing really new. The piece seems entirely speculative, and certainly not based on any new information the article divulges.

Sportando and other European sports pages then run with the piece (adding no new information or doing no new reporting of their own) as if it's something new, and as if Tomic and/or the Jazz have been putting out recent signals, as if new decisions are being made. Other outlets of varying quality pick up on this and we have twitter rumors, radio rumors and Jazz forum/blog rumors. All based on what looks like a rehashing of very old speculative possibilities.

About the only thing new that I've seen that may be solid is Locke's radio interview saying that Quin loves Tomic, and that he (Locke) won't be surprised if Tomic ends up in Utah next year.

Maybe this is enough to get the rumors flying. Maybe Marca.com put the original article out based on new things they've learned from Tomic's side but weren't said on the record. But it seems a stretch to me to start getting excited. Maybe this is good for adding 15% to whatever you thought the odds were that Tomic would come next year, but probably not much more.

With that said, I'd be happy if the Jazz were able to bring him over and excited to see what he can do.

 

[Stifle Tower]

If I were a betting man, I'd say this is no more than Tomic trying to get Barcelona to give him a new deal. We'll bring over Pleiss. And DL and Snyder are too afraid to bring over Neto; he'd outplay both Trey and Dante. Then what would they do?

 

[idiot]

If I were a betting man, I'd say this is no more than Tomic trying to get Barcelona to give him a new deal. We'll bring over Pleiss. And DL and Snyder are too afraid to bring over Neto; he'd outplay both Trey and Dante. Then what would they do?

There could be something to your first point, though I see no evidence at all that Tomic's camp is behind this new outburst of Tomic-talk in any way.

I don't really see why there's all these great hopes for Neto. He's had a very mediocre year this year (and last) in Spain. He's shooting 42% from the field and 24% from (a shorter) 3. He's half a year older than Burke. He's an adequate, but not special athlete. He seems to know how to run a team adequately, and he's probably feistier on defense than Burke. But I can't imagine he's a better defender than Dante. I just don't see where his mix of skills/weaknesses bring us more than what we already have. Sure, he's a good insurance policy if we want to move Burke, but I find it hard to get too excited about a mediocre performer on a bad Spanish team.