Trade deadline discussion

[LoPo]

I too like brogdon a lot..... But not as a 3. We are already too small, I don't want to go smaller.

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I agree. We already seem reluctant to play Conley off the bench. If we get an undersized guard, it's risky to get a guy like Brogdon who expects to start. Could hurt the chemistry of the team.

Brogdon would only seem to make sense if Conley is used to get him. And I don't think that is very likely at all.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If we could sneak into the Philly Toronto deal I’d give Bojan up for Danny Green... toss Ujiri a second rounder for his trouble. That’s the type of defender I think could make a difference for us and we. Oils limit his minutes now and have him fresh as a ****ing daisy for the playoffs.

Gross. I'm 100% against any move that lowers the teams ceiling.

 

[LoPo]

Gross. I'm 100% against any move that lowers the teams ceiling.

I agree with this. Bogey gives us a better chance to win than Danny Green. We need a Danny Green type player, but not at the expense of Bogey.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I don't want to trade the guy. I'm leaving it up to the Front Office to make that call. I didn't put him with "available" guys like Bogey and Favors for a reason. I listed the reasons the FO might have to consider trading him while his value is so high.

Stop being so defensive over Conley dude. And definitely stop coming up with a stat to rationalize value. If we lost Rudy, Conley's +/- would be irrelevant. We wouldn't be a home court playoff team. Same could be said for Don. Probably the same could be said for Clarkson and maybe even Joe too. Conley is having a nice season, but keep things in perspective. If the FO thinks Conley is worth trading to get a Jerami Grant, Siakim, even Marcus Smart, you have to consider it.

I honestly don't think we should make any substantial trade, but I could understand if we do.

The point is we are weakening the team by trading Conley. We won’t get close to his value as he’s on or getting to the down side of his career and my only be a half season rental to whoever trades for him. A Conley trade likely takes us out of contention, and maybe he signs for a little cheaper here than anywhere else. He’s made his money, maybe he’d like to ride things out in Utah, but who knows.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Gross. I'm 100% against any move that lowers the teams ceiling.

I agree with this. Bogey gives us a better chance to win than Danny Green. We need a Danny Green type player, but not at the expense of Bogey.

I don’t see this as lowering the ceiling at all... guy has won titles with 3 different teams.

The best thing Bojan is doing right now is spacing the floor. The rest is f his game is struggling. Danny spaces the floor and stocks to that role in offense... on defense he is worlds better than Bojan. With all due respect to Royce, I think come playoff time Danny is your second best defender... and he doesn’t comprise spacing.

If Bojan gets back to being good Bojan that is great but he’s still a big liability on offense and I’d still rather put the ball in the hands of DM, Mike, Joe, JC come playoff time. The few nice post ups per game are nice when the offense struggles. Do we want him handling the ball in a crucial spot?

It could be a lateral move but it would help balance the budget this offseason.

 

[LoPo]

The point is we are weakening the team by trading Conley. We won’t get close to his value as he’s on or getting to the down side of his career and my only be a half season rental to whoever trades for him. A Conley trade likely takes us out of contention, and maybe he signs for a little cheaper here than anywhere else. He’s made his money, maybe he’d like to ride things out in Utah, but who knows.

I would like to keep Conley to see how this season plays out. He is playing really well right now and throughout this season.

You gotta play devil's advocate though. As a GM, you have to. It's their job. So just ponder:

- if Conley doesn't have a good postseason, then we lost the opportunity to use his massive expiring as an asset this trade deadline. Conley is a really good player, but can he put us over the hump in the playoffs? I didn't see much evidence of that last postseason. I'm banking on that changing this postseason.

- if Conley has a good postseason, he'll expect a big pay day. Do we give it to him? Can we afford to?

- good postseason or not, Conley can walk this offseason for nothing. If he's so important right now, how does it look next summer without him AND with nothing in return?

- based off our current weakness (perimeter defense), do we need Conley's poise and shooting more than say a defender like Smart or Brogdon? Those two are secured to contracts at least through next year.

I'm willing to risk it to go for it all by keeping Conley. However, I would not be shocked if Conley was used in a trade today or tomorrow. A $35 million expiring playing like he's playing has value.

 

[LoPo]

I don’t see this as lowering the ceiling at all... guy has won titles with 3 different teams.

The best thing Bojan is doing right now is spacing the floor. The rest is f his game is struggling. Danny spaces the floor and stocks to that role in offense... on defense he is worlds better than Bojan. With all due respect to Royce, I think come playoff time Danny is your second best defender... and he doesn’t comprise spacing.

If Bojan gets back to being good Bojan that is great but he’s still a big liability on offense and I’d still rather put the ball in the hands of DM, Mike, Joe, JC come playoff time. The few nice post ups per game are nice when the offense struggles. Do we want him handling the ball in a crucial spot?

It could be a lateral move but it would help balance the budget this offseason.

Last postseason, we desperately needed another scorer. Don was having to carry too much of the load. Even when Conley came back and Clarkson was here, we needed more offense or at least the threat of offense. Green, while a great defensive player, is only a spot up shooter. And even as a spot up shooter, he's getting less than 10ppg.

If it's Bogey for Green straight up, I think that's a bad deal for us. If we get some additional assets, then maybe it could be considered.

As for the budget, I think a Bogey for Green deal just leads us to a Conley overpay in the summer. Then we are having similar conversations about trying to balance the budget with Conley and his value a year from now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Last postseason, we desperately needed another scorer. Don was having to carry too much of the load. Even when Conley came back and Clarkson was here, we needed more offense or at least the threat of offense. Green, while a great defensive player, is only a spot up shooter. And even as a spot up shooter, he's getting less than 10ppg.

If it's Bogey for Green straight up, I think that's a bad deal for us. If we get some additional assets, then maybe it could be considered.

As for the budget, I think a Bogey for Green deal just leads us to a Conley overpay in the summer. Then we are having similar conversations about trying to balance the budget with Conley and his value a year from now.

We scored a bazillion points in the postseason... the bigger problem was we allowed a bazillion and 1. As we have seen Bogey isn't necessarily the guy you want to create with the ball in his hands. If we get to a point where we need that then we already have issues imo.

In the playoffs you rely more heavily on your stars. With DM, Mike, Joe, JC we have a fair amount of creation. Bogey is okay to supplement that here and his biggest value is as a floor spacer. Green is hit and miss with his shot... but all shooters are... if he isn't shooting well he still is a valuable defender... if Bojan is off he's a ****ing disaster.

If you need to win Game 7 of a playoff series against the Lakers, Clippers, or Nets... do you prefer having Green or Bogey? Its not a tough question for me.

Conley overpay is coming regardless of what we do... we overpay guys... its our thing.

 

[LoPo]

We scored a bazillion points in the postseason... the bigger problem was we allowed a bazillion and 1. As we have seen Bogey isn't necessarily the guy you want to create with the ball in his hands. If we get to a point where we need that then we already have issues imo.

In the playoffs you rely more heavily on your stars. With DM, Mike, Joe, JC we have a fair amount of creation. Bogey is okay to supplement that here and his biggest value is as a floor spacer. Green is hit and miss with his shot... but all shooters are... if he isn't shooting well he still is a valuable defender... if Bojan is off he's a ****ing disaster.

If you need to win Game 7 of a playoff series against the Lakers, Clippers, or Nets... do you prefer having Green or Bogey? Its not a tough question for me.

Conley overpay is coming regardless of what we do... we overpay guys... its our thing.

I see what you're saying.

I think playoff ball and season ball are just different. Yes, Green excels in playoff basketball, but I think Bogey does too. He's shown that in the past. Everything slows down. I don't think Bogey is as bad of a defensive liability in the playoffs. And we'll need his "size" against guys like LeBron, AD, Kawhi, etc. While he might get torched in some of those matchups, he'll help us some there more than Green would be able to. And he'll make those guys work on the defensive end.

Also, Don showed in Game 7 that he can defend at a very high level. However, he couldn't maintain the high level defense (shutting down Murray) along with high level offense (carrying us back in the 2nd half). Nobody can. If Bogey can alleviate some of the offensive burden from Mitchell, I think Mitchell can be more of an asset on the defensive end.

I'm okay trading Bogey for an upgrade. I just don't see Danny Green as that upgrade. Now if we're getting draft assets that turn into something else, then sure maybe.

 

[cowhide]

Yes the idea of trading Clarkson is crazy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I see what you're saying.

I think playoff ball and season ball are just different. Yes, Green excels in playoff basketball, but I think Bogey does too. He's shown that in the past. Everything slows down. I don't think Bogey is as bad of a defensive liability in the playoffs. And we'll need his "size" against guys like LeBron, AD, Kawhi, etc. While he might get torched in some of those matchups, he'll help us some there more than Green would be able to. And he'll make those guys work on the defensive end.

Also, Don showed in Game 7 that he can defend at a very high level. However, he couldn't maintain the high level defense (shutting down Murray) along with high level offense (carrying us back in the 2nd half). Nobody can. If Bogey can alleviate some of the offensive burden from Mitchell, I think Mitchell can be more of an asset on the defensive end.

I'm okay trading Bogey for an upgrade. I just don't see Danny Green as that upgrade. Now if we're getting draft assets that turn into something else, then sure maybe.

I agree it may be a lateral move... but there is no player or scenario where Bojan is more useful on defense than Danny Green... none... not one. Just look at their block and steal rates. Danny is 2.3 and 2.6... Bojan is .8 and .1. Danny is better and locking his guy up too and it isn't close.

Danny gets a ton of **** for missing shots in some games... but guess what? In the playoffs last year he had the second best on-off splits for the championship team... better than Lebron... slightly worse than AD. The year before that he was 4th for the championship raptors...

Our current biggest need is perimeter defense... and it really isn't close. Danny might be the most playoff proven effective perimeter defender we could get... and he shoots 40% from three on good volume. He's a championship piece imo... even though he is old and runs like he has a turd that is about to squeak out his *** if he doesn't get to the bathroom soon.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Swapping Green for Bojan would be similar to what the Raps did with JV and Marc Gasol imo... JV might have been the better overall player in a vacuum and could put up some nice numbers... Marc was a better option for the playoffs even though he didn't give you a ton of stats. What he does is more important for teams making a deep run in the playoffs.

I also think Green could be retained for a reasonable price on a short deal this offseason. I'd do it in a second... I honestly think the Raps could spin him off to a third team for something better. If he got bought out and joined a different team I'd be furious.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I'm not necessarily criticizing it, simply stating the fact that the Jazz burned the (vast) majority of their liquid-ish assets to acquire Conley, such that we really would have to get creative to summon anything worth a **** in a trade.

And not that you're asking, but I still wouldn't have traded all of that (again; almost everything that the Jazz COULD trade) for Conley. If it were a question as simple as players going to the highest bidder, I would've gone after Butler, Brogdon, or Harris and kept the other pieces to either build the team or make a play on the market later. I would also try not to whiff so hard in the draft.

I totally agree. I think we missed the ball by not acquiring him at the trade deadline that year. We were bidding against ourselves too because the only other rumored team making a strong push was the Pistons if I remember correctly. We really don’t have much for trade assets at all. We have no salary in the 3m-10m range and no picks to speak of unless they’re years in advance.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I don't want to trade the guy. I'm leaving it up to the Front Office to make that call. I didn't put him with "available" guys like Bogey and Favors for a reason. I listed the reasons the FO might have to consider trading him while his value is so high.

Stop being so defensive over Conley dude. And definitely stop coming up with a stat to rationalize value. If we lost Rudy, Conley's +/- would be irrelevant. We wouldn't be a home court playoff team. Same could be said for Don. Probably the same could be said for Clarkson and maybe even Joe too. Conley is having a nice season, but keep things in perspective. If the FO thinks Conley is worth trading to get a Jerami Grant, Siakim, even Marcus Smart, you have to consider it.

I honestly don't think we should make any substantial trade, but I could understand if we do.

Luckily the FO doesnt have doodoo for brains.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Luckily the FO doesnt have doodoo for brains.

LoPo’s weird vendetta against Conley is cringeworthy at this point. You don’t trade an all-star and league leader in +/- especially when you have the leagues best record.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How many teams have won a ring making major shake-up moves at the trade deadline? I geuss you could say JV/Gasol, but JV was only averaging 20 mpg.

I would guess none, which is why the Jazz arent going to trade any of their starters most likely.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't think Philly gets Lowry... I'm guessing the Heat win that bidding war (may have already won it). It sounds as if Lowry is negotiating his contract extension with his new team which sounds very Miami imo.

So Danny is likely not even available.

The Lonzo Ball chatter is interesting. I have no idea wtf NO is doing. Their offseason was screwy as hell. I have not been a big fan of Ball but it appears he has figured out his jump shot and is making progress. The defensive and passing stuff he does has always been really intriguing. Not someone we would likely look at but an interesting name that may change a team's fortune. NO should just pay him and keep him.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I don't think Philly gets Lowry... I'm guessing the Heat win that bidding war (may have already won it). It sounds as if Lowry is negotiating his contract extension with his new team which sounds very Miami imo.

So Danny is likely not even available.

The Lonzo Ball chatter is interesting. I have no idea wtf NO is doing. Their offseason was screwy as hell. I have not been a big fan of Ball but it appears he has figured out his jump shot and is making progress. The defensive and passing stuff he does has always been really intriguing. Not someone we would likely look at but an interesting name that may change a team's fortune. NO should just pay him and keep him.

Lonzo is super intriguing he’s a really good defender.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How many teams have won a ring making major shake-up moves at the trade deadline? I geuss you could say JV/Gasol, but JV was only averaging 20 mpg.

I would guess none, which is why the Jazz arent going to trade any of their starters most likely.

Pistons, Raps, SA added Diaw which helped them win a title but probably doesn't meet the definition you outlined. 2007-08 Lakers almost did...

Its not unheard of to make a key addition late in the season. The biggest move we'd make would involve Bojan and he's what the 5th/6th/7th most important player on the team?

I seriously doubt we do anything wild... and I would bet we just wait until buyout season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Lonzo is super intriguing he’s a really good defender.

I think SVG is a ****** coach at this point. I think Griffin kinda hamstrung him. The Adams Bledsoe acquisitions were weird... feels like they could have just kept Hill and been much better off... Horford would have been a much better fit for the money than Adams.

They were sitting in a pretty nice position and just kinda ****ed it up. Now looking to move Lonzo when I think he's kinda the ideal fit with Zion and Ingram. You already have infinity first round picks just pay the guy and keep him.