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Trade deadline discussion

infection said:
I think we’ve convinced ourselves to be “too realistic” surrounding trade values with Smart. We’re talking about needing to send first round picks and such to land him. But this Boston reporter is talking about how his contract is hard to move, and another Boston person had suggested Smart and a pick for Clarkson. We’re talking about Clarkson plus a pick or Bojan. I just don’t think Smart’s market is as high as we’ve made it seem here. His efficiency is really bad. Then couple that with his contract extension kicking in next year and that’s a huge pill to swallow to a team on the tax (both us and Boston) and that doesn’t get nearly enough attention. We’d be paying him $21M in ‘25-‘26. Plus simply swapping Clarkson for him this year costs us like $10M or something when all is said and done with tax (haven’t officially run the numbers, I’ll leave that to someone else). There’s no way we send (or at least no way we should send) a first rounder to enter tax hell. He’d be costing us other players next year. I’d make them eat Udoka’s deal.
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I said this earlier and agree with you . I think smarts value is lower than JC at the moment.


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Feels like there is a lot of smoke rising around the jazz and Harrison Barnes which I would be totally down with. What do people think the parameters of a trade with Sac for Barnes would be? Still would love to get Smart.


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Jazz at full strength are still better then maybe 25 other teams in league
I would not give away too much to maybe get better
Jazz do have some leverage here :mad:
 
In a trade scenario for players like Barnes or Grant the jazz will have to add salary to Joe if that is who they are trying to move. Both of those players are making 20 mil and joe is only at 13. Would they add Gay to make the difference? The rest of our players are making so little you would have to package 4 guys.


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Clarkson + 2nd for Smart

Joe and Gay + pick for Barnes

Conley, Forrest, Butler
Mitchell, Smart, Hughes
Barnes, O’Neal, House
Bogdonavic, Paschall/House
Gobert, Whiteside, Dok, Paschall (Small Ball)

This beefs up the defense across the board and while giving us another offensive weapon in the starting lineup from a vet who can win. It also opens up minutes for Paschall and House. We still have one small ball center as well. We essentially trade offense for defense on our 6th man and get an upgrade from Joe to Barnes while clearing Gays minutes for Paschall and House.


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Celtics are going to want Bogey or Ingles for Smart depending on what direction they want to go with their roster. They won't want Clarkson. I do believe you could turn Clarkson into Thad Young if it ends up being a Bogey trade for Smart. Barnes is probably not on the table for what the Jazz have to offer.
 
So if NO is a buyer... they have a large trade exception from the Adams trade. Say you do a straight JC for a second round pick... doesn't even have to be a real second round pick. You've now alleviated a huge amount of the luxury tax pressure this year and next. You can sell it as savings/flexibility but also that you want to see what you have in JB. Mights set us up for another move.

Super unsexy but when you figure it saves us infinity dollars and NO only pays half of JC's contract this year to get an offensive upgrade... I think they would bite.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
So if NO is a buyer... they have a large trade exception from the Adams trade. Say you do a straight JC for a second round pick... doesn't even have to be a real second round pick. You've now alleviated a huge amount of the luxury tax pressure this year and next. You can sell it as savings/flexibility but also that you want to see what you have in JB. Mights set us up for another move.

Super unsexy but when you figure it saves us infinity dollars and NO only pays half of JC's contract this year to get an offensive upgrade... I think they would bite.
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If they did this, I’d be very interested in the “Ryan doesn’t make money-only moves” takes. Those alone may be worth pulling the trigger. Probably something about “wow, second rounders have tons of value, as you’ve seen, and we haven’t been able to make those deals so this is really good to stock the cupboards.”
 
A little bit of a pet peeve surrounding so many of these discussions. It seems we're almost operating in the wrong direction as we try to figure these fake trades out.

We concentrate so much on what we need and how little we might be able to spend to get it that it's hard to approach things realistically. Figuring out what we want and what works money wise is the easy part, yet so much of the discussion here is on that.

Instead, it seems we should be starting from almost (though not quite) the opposite viewpoint: figuring out what we would be willing to give up and how we can make the trading partner happy within those parameters in order to get what we want. It seems to me we (or at least the Jazz internally) should be discussing what's our upper limit for a Smart, Grant, or Covington (etc.) trade. We should be discussing why we have something to offer the trading partner that they not only want but would find better than offers that other teams are realistically throwing at them. Instead of just assuming/hoping the other team is dumb/desperate, we maybe ought to be giving more (and more realistic) attention to why the other team will be able to justify the trade to their fanbase.

Of course the Jazz themselves don't start negotiations with their most generous offer, but they sure better know what their most generous offer is and why they think it makes sense for the other team. There's been some of this kind of thinking here, but I'd like to see more of it.
 
infection said:
If they did this, I’d be very interested in the “Ryan doesn’t make money-only moves” takes. Those alone may be worth pulling the trigger. Probably something about “wow, second rounders have tons of value, as you’ve seen, and we haven’t been able to make those deals so this is really good to stock the cupboards.”
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For this type of move I might actually argue that it does legitimately change our flexibility. The follow up move would be key. I would quickly feel dumb when the follow up move is sending Ingles out for someone that makes less so we get all the way under the tax.
 
LoPo said:
Lol, the ole "scorched earth" trade idea.

Jazz get Collins, Smart, and Grant
Celtics get Conley
Hawks get Rudy
Pistons get Bogdan Bogdanovic, Schroder, Boston 2022 1st, Atlanta 2022 1st

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y72rlw49

Celtics go nuts if they get Conley for Smart/Schroder and throw a 1st at Detroit.

Hawks go nuts if they get Rudy and throw a 1st at Detroit. They actually save money and put the best screener with Trae.

Pistons are happy to get a good rotation player in Bogdan and two 1sts. They turn around and trade Schroder to Dallas for more picks.

We completely change what we do, go more defensive overall as a team, and get much younger. Don, Smart, Grant, Bojan and Colllins would be exciting...
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You should be banned for posting **** like this.
 
One thing on Barnes… are we sure he isn’t a worse defender than Bojan? He has been a part of one of the worst defenses ever the last couple years. I honestly think Bojan is straight up better. I’m cool going after Barnes if we have to move Bogey in another deal… but outside of that I’m good on Barnes.
 
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