Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to figure out how to say. I'd only add picks or overpay if it's a Bledsoe/Holiday level deal. I don't think Grant rises to that level either.

Keep in mind, yes we have a good shot at the title. But if it doesn't work out, and we can't add picks to trades or miss out on making a bunch of our own, that hurts Mitchell's prime and the rest of Gobert's. Maybe doing that would be worth it, but it is something to consider.

When we say "add picks" we have exactly one pick we can offer in 2026 or 2027... we can not offer both.

Siakham is fine in theory but even pulling off that type of deal we need to realize that Pascal murdered his team offensively last time they were in the playoffs. His shooting has been so bad. We are a monumental offensive team and giving up a guy like Bogey likely has a real effect on our offense.

 

[campaignist]

To each their own, but it matters almost zero to me. I have no hesitation to trade a 2027 pick because we aren’t going to be competing for a championship at that point. The whole point of draft picks and future assets is to eventually win, but the opportunity to do so is extremely rare.

I will take my 1% increase in winning a title now over my 1% chance of getting a superstar 5 years from now. Losing a first round pick isn’t some kind of death note.

So here's my concern. It's not just the risk of losing an unprotected 2027 lotto pick. It's the inability to include a pick in a trade for the next 4 years, and only having 2 of our own in that time. Late first round picks at that. That means that if you retool by moving Conley, Bogey, or Clarkson, you're going to be getting a downgrade. Maybe they just walk or retire. You're also way less likely to get not just a star, but a rotation player, via the draft. AInge hasn't had a good draft pick since Tatum.

Donovan will turn 30 at the end of the 2024 season, Rudy will turn 34. That is the prime for both of them. It's something to consider.

 

[campaignist]

When we say "add picks" we have exactly one pick we can offer in 2026 or 2027... we can not offer both.

Ahh right, that's what I meant. That's pretty much my real concern actually.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ahh right, that's what I meant. That's pretty much my real concern actually.

Yeah we are out our pick this year... and in 2024 because of the Favs deal.

I think we are also in the repeater tax next year... its what Tony Jones said in his article today. Which means trading in Joe for a contract that extends beyond this year is likely out.

If anyone is moved I think its JC... I think many will hate the return on the trade as it likely will provide an inferior player that may be a better defensive fit... my guess is we go down in salary this year and next before all is done.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If we could melt the 1st round pick in some cauldron and make Donovan and Mike a little longer and better defensively I would do it... I just don't see the deal that moves the needle with that pick more than some move around the fringes that pops. I mocked @Saint Cy of JFC for his Yuta love but I could get behind that type of deal (a second for Yuta or someone in that tier of player) because that might be a guy that helps the connective fiber of the defense and be a deal that is low risk and somewhat high reward. We are going to have covid absences at some point and these guys we've wanted to see more of will get some time. You might pick someone up like that and find out you found a diamond.

If there is a JC deal that we can move him and land a Robert Covington... I could get behind that I guess... I just don't think it ends up fixing the defense. It might help... and maybe it allows us to truly go with a small ball lineup. The next move is just really difficult one to make.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If we could melt the 1st round pick in some cauldron and make Donovan and Mike a little longer and better defensively I would do it... I just don't see the deal that moves the needle with that pick more than some move around the fringes that pops. I mocked @Saint Cy of JFC for his Yuta love but I could get behind that type of deal (a second for Yuta or someone in that tier of player) because that might be a guy that helps the connective fiber of the defense and be a deal that is low risk and somewhat high reward. We are going to have covid absences at some point and these guys we've wanted to see more of will get some time. You might pick someone up like that and find out you found a diamond.

If there is a JC deal that we can move him and land a Robert Covington... I could get behind that I guess... I just don't think it ends up fixing the defense. It might help... and maybe it allows us to truly go with a small ball lineup. The next move is just really difficult one to make.

Yuta > Roco

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yuta > Roco

Haven't watched him enough to agree fully but its likely closer than most people think. Only really watched him against KD and he seemed to do pretty well... KD is still KD so he got his of course.

 

[Hekate]

I just don't see one attainable guy who masks our issues with perimeter defense.

At the end of the day, we will roll into the 4th quarters of playoff games hoping that Conley, Don and Rudy can combine well enough defensively to address the pick-n-roll while the opponent has 5 shooters on the floor.

We need Rudy, three really good perimeter defenders and Don playing at an above average rate defensively to win a title. One guy won't solve our issues.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

Jazz are a historic offensive team with Rudy on the floor. One defensive player may not solve all our issues but if the offensive output doesn't change much it goes a long way towards winning a championship. Jazz don't necessarily need to go all in on one move. Against small ball, the way Clips threw one against us. All we need is Rudy to shut down weakside and hope the new acquisition can hold his own in the strong side. Even one player can significantly reduce Rudy's load.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jazz are a historic offensive team with Rudy on the floor. One defensive player may not solve all our issues but if the offensive output doesn't change much it goes a long way towards winning a championship. Jazz don't necessarily need to go all in on one move. Against small ball, the way Clips threw one against us. All we need is Rudy to shut down weakside and hope the new acquisition can hold his own in the strong side. Even one player can significantly reduce Rudy's load.

That historic offense is super important to our success... So Rudy, Donovan, and Mike are non-negotiable... they need to be on the floor. With the main lineup are you replacing Royce with a better defender or Bojan? Those are two critical floor spacers.

So then do you swap out JC or Joe for the wing defender to share some minutes with Rudy? Both guys have a critical role on offense in some units so the defender needs to be able to replicate some of that role.

Its just such a tough proposition. To swap out Joe or JC, plus some distant draft asset and find a defensive upgrade that won't murder the offense. And please do so while decreasing salary if possible. We are trying to find the most desirable type of player that all nba teams are looking for.

 

[infection]

We want to play chess. The rest of the league is playing chess. We don’t want to make a checkers move and look dumb while everyone is playing chess. But what if we can make a really, really good checkers move and while everyone else is barely understanding the rules of chess?

Tl;dr sign Dunn.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We want to play chess. The rest of the league is playing chess. We don’t want to make a checkers move and look dumb while everyone is playing chess. But what if we can make a really, really good checkers move and while everyone else is barely understanding the rules of chess?

Tl;dr sign Dunn.

Sign Dunn or House... I am beginning to think that @KqWIN is right and Dunn is not healthy. How the hell is CJ Miles getting a contract and not Dunn if so.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

For my own sanity I will assume Dunn is totally broken and that every team knows it... only way it makes sense at this point imo.

 

[infection]

That historic offense is super important to our success... So Rudy, Donovan, and Mike are non-negotiable... they need to be on the floor. With the main lineup are you replacing Royce with a better defender or Bojan? Those are two critical floor spacers.

So then do you swap out JC or Joe for the wing defender to share some minutes with Rudy? Both guys have a critical role on offense in some units so the defender needs to be able to replicate some of that role.

Its just such a tough proposition. To swap out Joe or JC, plus some distant draft asset and find a defensive upgrade that won't murder the offense. And please do so while decreasing salary if possible. We are trying to find the most desirable type of player that all nba teams are looking for.

I think Royce is the blind spot. We’re so occupied with saying how underrated he is and how he’s what we need more of that we don’t see a larger picture. Last year he was our second in MPG and this year third. I don’t know of any championship team that one of the largest floor occupiers has been so limited. It’s one thing if he’s Bruce Bowen, but we really need to stop pretending he’s Bruce Bowen. It doesn’t mean Royce can’t be an important part of a championship team, but averaging north of 35 mpg in the playoffs is way too much.

And honestly, when we’re looking at a guard matchup, we talk about not making whatever change it is because of us needing Royce’s defense. On a small guard it really doesn’t matter who is defending them. Royce is just as bad as any of our bad perimeter defenders. One reason I would advocate Joe in closing lineups though I know most have a lot of anxieties with not having Royce close. I think having the “low usage guy” in the closing lineup helps facilitate our default to Donovan-ball.

 

[campaignist]

I think Royce is the blind spot. We’re so occupied with saying how underrated he is and how he’s what we need more of that we don’t see a larger picture. Last year he was our second in MPG and this year third. I don’t know of any championship team that one of the largest floor occupiers has been so limited. It’s one thing if he’s Bruce Bowen, but we really need to stop pretending he’s Bruce Bowen. It doesn’t mean Royce can’t be an important part of a championship team, but averaging north of 35 mpg in the playoffs is way too much.

And honestly, when we’re looking at a guard matchup, we talk about not making whatever change it is because of us needing Royce’s defense. On a small guard it really doesn’t matter who is defending them. Royce is just as bad as any of our bad perimeter defenders. One reason I would advocate Joe in closing lineups though I know most have a lot of anxieties with not having Royce close.

I love Royce but the question is: is he a starter on a championship team? I'd say no, regardless of how the rest of the roster is. If he did at least one other thing better, like better perimeter D, rebounding, or was even 2 inches taller, then maybe.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Just a simple Google search and see what I found:

Redirect Notice

I would do that. And I honestly think that was the best trade proposal of the bunch other than the one with 2 first rounders.

 

[Hekate]

That historic offense is super important to our success... So Rudy, Donovan, and Mike are non-negotiable... they need to be on the floor. With the main lineup are you replacing Royce with a better defender or Bojan? Those are two critical floor spacers.

So then do you swap out JC or Joe for the wing defender to share some minutes with Rudy? Both guys have a critical role on offense in some units so the defender needs to be able to replicate some of that role.

Its just such a tough proposition. To swap out Joe or JC, plus some distant draft asset and find a defensive upgrade that won't murder the offense. And please do so while decreasing salary if possible. We are trying to find the most desirable type of player that all nba teams are looking for.

Yeah, it's complicated. Especially if you think it has to be a starter. It would have to be clear upgrades to Royce or Bojan, not easy to come by. I am thinking more along the minimum guys or House. Having Rudy Gay helps a little bit. We don't necessarily need a 30 minute guy that can defend since we also have him.

I think first to be out of rotation is Ingles but you could probably get away with having Royce and Ingles minutes down and just incorporating someone like House.

It feels wild to say but JC is the better player right now and the better defender. Joe looks abysmal out there defensively. He is still good when he pick and rolls but it feels like it's his only use right now. He hasn't been making quick passes or finding Rudy outside of PnRs as he used to. I am getting sad talking about it. Another tough proposition would be to trade him. It could be catastrophic off-court but his on-court value doesn't really justify it either.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Royce is the blind spot. We’re so occupied with saying how underrated he is and how he’s what we need more of that we don’t see a larger picture. Last year he was our second in MPG and this year third. I don’t know of any championship team that one of the largest floor occupiers has been so limited. It’s one thing if he’s Bruce Bowen, but we really need to stop pretending he’s Bruce Bowen. It doesn’t mean Royce can’t be an important part of a championship team, but averaging north of 35 mpg in the playoffs is way too much.

And honestly, when we’re looking at a guard matchup, we talk about not making whatever change it is because of us needing Royce’s defense. On a small guard it really doesn’t matter who is defending them. Royce is just as bad as any of our bad perimeter defenders. One reason I would advocate Joe in closing lineups though I know most have a lot of anxieties with not having Royce close. I think having the “low usage guy” in the closing lineup helps facilitate our default to Donovan-ball.

Joe has looked so cooked on defense though. Still very functional on offense because he's such a good shooter and passer.

Royce one on one on a quick guard is an issue but he's better than the other guys because at least they can't just shoot right over him without feeling him a little. He also gets steal and rebounds which are critical to closing out those possessions.

Could Royce's minutes come down a bit in favor of a better defender? Sure... I do think that defender would be a worse shooter and less functional overall. Does that 5-6 minutes help Royce have more gas and be a little better though... might help.

I've dumped on Forrest but his on/off splits are wild. Need some more minutes to see what is real and what is noise but maybe he is more of a stopper than Royce and should eat up some of those minutes.

 

[campaignist]

It feels wild to say but JC is the better player right now and the better defender. Joe looks abysmal out there defensively. He is still good when he pick and rolls but it feels like it's his only use right now. He hasn't been making quick passes or finding Rudy outside of PnRs as he used to. I am getting sad talking about it. Another tough proposition would be to trade him. It could be catastrophic off-court but his on-court value doesn't really justify it either.

I'm still really really loathe to trade Joe, when he's playing well he is crucial to what they do. And trading him would of course be a huge off court negative.

However, this isn't a good analogy talent wise of course, but Demar DeRozen is the best and most loved Raptor of all time. They had the balls to trade him for a clear upgrade.
We know how that played out. If you think an Ingles trade can put you over the top, and get you to the Finals or beyond, you probably have to do it.
Is that kind of trade out there? No idea.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, it's complicated. Especially if you think it has to be a starter. It would have to be clear upgrades to Royce or Bojan, not easy to come by. I am thinking more along the minimum guys or House. Having Rudy Gay helps a little bit. We don't necessarily need a 30 minute guy that can defend since we also have him.

I think first to be out of rotation is Ingles but you could probably get away with having Royce and Ingles minutes down and just incorporating someone like House.

It feels wild to say but JC is the better player right now and the better defender. Joe looks abysmal out there defensively. He is still good when he pick and rolls but it feels like it's his only use right now. He hasn't been making quick passes or finding Rudy outside of PnRs as he used to. I am getting sad talking about it. Another tough proposition would be to trade him. It could be catastrophic off-court but his on-court value doesn't really justify it either.

I honestly think we should pick up House and rest both Ingles and Conley... See if we can help Joe recapture some of his old defense. He may just be winding things down and not as motivated right now. He looks a little more out of shape than normal (not saying he was ever out of shape he just has that look).

I don't know if I have the stomach for a joe trade but of all the rotation players he has looked the worst on defense. Rudy Gay got cooked a couple times on the perimeter but he provides other value that Joe doesn't. If we had 30 or 31 YO Ingles right now we'd be in such great shape... maybe some rest could get him there... at least some nights.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Royce way too disrespected here lmao. He's a perfect starter for this team. We don't need to upgrade Royce at all. We dont need to cut his minutes at all. We need to upgrade/change focus at Bojan's spot or Clarkson's spot, or get a player who can absorb minutes from those players.