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Trade deadline discussion

LoPo said:
None of those teams were built around those centers. The only one worth any sort of conversation is Ben Wallace. He worked his tail on defense while being able to guard the perimeter and post. He was an athletic freak. Ben Wallace was not an important part of the offensive game whatsoever. The Pistons team was built evenly. We are not. We run everything on both ends around Rudy. It doesn't work. It clearly won't work.
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You are not seeing the big picture. You are doing what the media did and essentially saying "Rudy couldn't stop that 3 point shooter and all people driving to the rim, it is his fault we lost." The problem is the rest of the team, not Rudy. Conley was a bad addition. Good for regular season wins, bad for playoff success. Not adding any defensive help was a mistake. Not trying to get longer and more athletic was a mistake. And Quin's system-driven gameplans are too limited and not flexible enough to deal with difficult situations thrown at us by the opponent, especially in the playoffs. All of those things need to be addressed before we look at swapping Rudy out for...what exactly? A center that shoots 3's and can't guard a garbage can, so we can say he is more offensively diverse? That is like complaining that the carpets are not pretty enough or new enough while the house is burning down. Very short-sighted.
 
LogGrad98 said:
You are not seeing the big picture. You are doing what the media did and essentially saying "Rudy couldn't stop that 3 point shooter and all people driving to the rim, it is his fault we lost." The problem is the rest of the team, not Rudy. Conley was a bad addition. Good for regular season wins, bad for playoff success. Not adding any defensive help was a mistake. Not trying to get longer and more athletic was a mistake. And Quin's system-driven gameplans are too limited and not flexible enough to deal with difficult situations thrown at us by the opponent, especially in the playoffs. All of those things need to be addressed before we look at swapping Rudy out for...what exactly? A center that shoots 3's and can't guard a garbage can, so we can say he is more offensively diverse? That is like complaining that the carpets are not pretty enough or new enough while the house is burning down. Very short-sighted.
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I'm in agreement. I've never said Rudy was bad. I simply pointed out that we run everything around him on both ends. We need balance. The playoffs are going to require balance because "systems" often fail in the playoffs unless you have a perfect roster like the Spurs.

Conley was an awful, awful deal. His fit is terrible. We took the ball out of Don's hands, and we didn't address our major weakness of perimeter defending. Not only was Conley a questionable fit, we emptied most of the assets because of him. He cost us valuable players and picks. Then his contract has cost us valuable picks so we could avoid spending so much. Not many want to admit it, but the ramifications of adding Conley have been a nightmare.

We can build with Rudy as part of the puzzle, but we have to stop building like he's the only piece that matters. That clearly doesn't work. It's not NBA playoff basketball because he's not some all-purpose player like LeBron, KD, etc.
 
I really do not get the Marcus Smart love. The guy cannot shoot! We have already tried that formula and it didn’t work too well…
 
LoPo said:
I'm in agreement. I've never said Rudy was bad. I simply pointed out that we run everything around him on both ends. We need balance. The playoffs are going to require balance because "systems" often fail in the playoffs unless you have a perfect roster like the Spurs.

Conley was an awful, awful deal. His fit is terrible. We took the ball out of Don's hands, and we didn't address our major weakness of perimeter defending. Not only was Conley a questionable fit, we emptied most of the assets because of him. He cost us valuable players and picks. Then his contract has cost us valuable picks so we could avoid spending so much. Not many want to admit it, but the ramifications of adding Conley have been a nightmare.

We can build with Rudy as part of the puzzle, but we have to stop building like he's the only piece that matters. That clearly doesn't work. It's not NBA playoff basketball because he's not some all-purpose player like LeBron, KD, etc.
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1. Conley is our best guard perimeter defender
2. Conley has been ****ing amazing and it was an excellent deal
3. Gobert is completely capable of leading an elite defense in the playoffs, his teammates just have to nut the **** up and stop being selfish babies
4. Donovan's lack of defensive development (and actual regression) is the biggest problem for the Jazz currently.
 
LoPo said:
None of those teams were built around those centers. The only one worth any sort of conversation is Ben Wallace. He worked his tail on defense while being able to guard the perimeter and post. He was an athletic freak. Ben Wallace was not an important part of the offensive game whatsoever. The Pistons team was built evenly. We are not. We run everything on both ends around Rudy. It doesn't work. It clearly won't work.
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What a take because when Gobert is out we are making scrub teams look like elite championship level contenders.
 
Conley is a good player but a bad fit next to Mitchell. It has a lot more to do with Don than it has to do with Conley since Conley won't change anything at this point of his career. Either Don picks up his game, defense especially, or we will have to trade one of the Conley/Don backcourt duo to make it work
 
jom2003 said:
Conley is a good player but a bad fit next to Mitchell. It has a lot more to do with Don than it has to do with Conley since Conley won't change anything at this point of his career. Either Don picks up his game, defense especially, or we will have to trade one of the Conley/Don backcourt duo to make it work
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So who is a good fit next to an undersized 2-guard who plays no defense and likes to play hero-ball? IT's very hard to get a 6'5 defensive PG who can also shoot and playmake for others (to make up for Don's inconsistent playmaking). Other than being short Mike Conley is the absolutely perfect guard next to Mitchell. He's about a good of a fit as it gets.

The answer is Donovan should just become a better defensive player. He doesnt even have to become a good defensive player, just be average, which he should be able to do.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I would have liked us to take a flier on Reddish. For that kind of cost we could have put something together. Kid could be something once he puts it together.
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I think there is some off the court stuff there because it doesn't all connect... His value should be higher than this imo. I would have definitely considered it from our perspective. Maybe he just isn't a worker or is immature... but with age come maturity... sometimes.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I would have liked us to take a flier on Reddish. For that kind of cost we could have put something together. Kid could be something once he puts it together.
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Because Reddish has been involved in trade talks, I looked him up and he truly doesn't have a feel for the defensive end. Pretty much like Mitchell but taller. His offense will improve but it would take a great turnaround in mentailty and understanding of the game to be somewhat average defender.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
So who is a good fit next to an undersized 2-guard who plays no defense and likes to play hero-ball? IT's very hard to get a 6'5 defensive PG who can also shoot and playmake for others (to make up for Don's inconsistent playmaking). Other than being short Mike Conley is the absolutely perfect guard next to Mitchell. He's about a good of a fit as it gets.

The answer is Donovan should just become a better defensive player. He doesnt even have to become a good defensive player, just be average, which he should be able to do.
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Donovan can't be both a poor defender and an inconsistent playmaker. He is great at shotmaking because team works for him on offense and he doesn't have to be burdened with playmaking duties. He is no Luka or Trae, he isn't able to read the game naturally.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
So who is a good fit next to an undersized 2-guard who plays no defense and likes to play hero-ball? IT's very hard to get a 6'5 defensive PG who can also shoot and playmake for others (to make up for Don's inconsistent playmaking). Other than being short Mike Conley is the absolutely perfect guard next to Mitchell. He's about a good of a fit as it gets.

The answer is Donovan should just become a better defensive player. He doesnt even have to become a good defensive player, just be average, which he should be able to do.
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Brogdon would have fit the bill.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think there is some off the court stuff there because it doesn't all connect... His value should be higher than this imo. I would have definitely considered it from our perspective. Maybe he just isn't a worker or is immature... but with age come maturity... sometimes.
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True, because sometimes with age just comes....age.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
So who is a good fit next to an undersized 2-guard who plays no defense and likes to play hero-ball? IT's very hard to get a 6'5 defensive PG who can also shoot and playmake for others (to make up for Don's inconsistent playmaking). Other than being short Mike Conley is the absolutely perfect guard next to Mitchell. He's about a good of a fit as it gets.

The answer is Donovan should just become a better defensive player. He doesnt even have to become a good defensive player, just be average, which he should be able to do.
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Jrue Holiday? Lonzo Ball? Chris Paul?

Just name a few we could've realistically gotten and would be a good fit next to Donovan.
 
jom2003 said:
Jrue Holiday? Lonzo Ball? Chris Paul?

Just name a few we could've realistically gotten and would be a good fit next to Donovan.
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Ball would actually be really good for us. Good court vision, plus defender, plays hard. Swapping Conley for Ball we would be better right off the bat.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Ball would actually be really good for us. Good court vision, plus defender, plays hard. Swapping Conley for Ball we would be better right off the bat.
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We missed the timeline on Paul and Jrue a while back(after we traded for Conley though). But not signing Ball last offseason is the one that upsets me cuz if happened right around when we resign Mike. There were multiple opportunities like this for us to get out of this rabbit hole but we chose not to
 
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LogGrad98 said:
Ball would actually be really good for us. Good court vision, plus defender, plays hard. Swapping Conley for Ball we would be better right off the bat.
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I feel like some of us said that, but got **** on for even suggesting it.

Don is so bad he should just retire. We can let Cy's Magical Mike carry our Jazz like he did against Memphis.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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