Trade deadline discussion

[Handlogten's Heros]

We have so much shooting and so much offense.

I am not sure why we are so hesitant to cash some of that in for defense. Bogey and Clarkson both do nice things, but those nice things have proven not to help as us much in a playoff setting as maybe having another guy or two that can at least guard a chair.

Try something else, you know? I’d be totally fine with a Bogey/Barnes swap.

It seems we are thinking “if we trade, Bogey or Clarkson we might get worse” (which is totally true), when I think we should be thinking “if we don’t trade Bogey or Clarkson for some perimeter D, we’re probably gonna get torched by someone again in the Playoffs.”

It’s like we are scared about being worse then we are even when we know what we are is going to be weighed, measured, and found wanting again in the Playoffs.

I don’t get it.

I think we would like to move JC... but the market is meh.

I think Bogey for Barnes makes sense... but they will want something more. What else do we have... if its Royce then I'm not sure its wise... if they want JC... then great. Bogey and JB? ehhhhh not sure they like that. I'm not giving a real first to make that switch.

 

[campaignist]

Not what I said. Bogey has value next year and the true core of this team is Rudy and Donovan. Conley I will take some calls on I suppose but you better blow me away. That is an offseason move. Bogey I'll take calls on but he's damn good so don't get cheap on me.

The right move might be rolling forward and giving it the college try to prove that there are issues... then you move Conley or Bogey. I am not above moving anyone... but I don't think the offers will be good enough for me to move either.

I will also hear out your offers for Rudy now too... but they better be crazy dumb. Only reason is I think he will get secretly shopped this offseason depending on how we go out in the playoffs. If the Kings had called and started with Tyrese, a couple of unprotected 1sts (including this year, Holmes, and stuff... like we would have had an internal meeting to discuss it at least.

Right now, I almost want a move just to see how Ainge is operating these days. I have no idea what this "half time, full control" approach is going to look like.
Zanik was trending in the right direction more or less, and I could get a read on how he was going to do things differently than DL. Right now, I don't have a clue,
even based on Ainge's record.

 

[infection]

If we aren't contenders right now and we don't have the balls to make a trade to get us there, make a bold move right now. If you are intent on building around Donovan, trade Bojan, Rudy or Conley right now. Look ahead. Don't be stubborn.

The bold move right now is to fire Snyder in-season. If we're passive and just going for money savings, we'll collapse again in the playoffs, fire Snyder at the end of the season, then waste more time of our limited Rudy/Donovan window.

The last years of Don-Rudy area will be defined by money saving moves and not actually trying to win with them. We won't realize how good these guys are until it's broken up. Might takes decades to get back to this level.

This is the most depressed and aggravating part of this. It's been 15 years since we lucked into the WCF and we haven't been anywhere close since. Before that it had been nearly 10 years. What should be sobering to everyone is that it really isn't outside the realm of possibility that the talent level on this team is something we may very well not see for another 20-30 years. When you look at it that way (and that's not huge hyperbole), it's astounding the lack of urgency from the very top to the very bottom of this organization.

 

[LoPo]

The reason nobody likes hearing from you isn't because they disagree with you - it's because you keep shoving your opinion down everybody's throats the second the conversation starts to breathe.

Like, it hurts imagining how much better this thread could be if you were content with putting an opinion out there and being done with it, instead of feeling this bizarre impulse to spam it each time you feel people have forgotten about it.

We all know where you stand. Give other people a chance to discuss now.

You must be a millennial and want me to kiss asses and blow on booboos all day.

This is the Utah Jazz fan forum where we celebrate the good, question moves and come up with ideas for a better future.

I don't know why normal, secure people would have issues with ideas. It's incredibly clear that this roster is flawed and our FO is more concerned about money than the ultimate goal of winning a title.

Baffles me that most of you are more upset with me than the ineptitude of the front office.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[MT Steve]

You must be a millennial and want me to kiss asses and blow on booboos all day.

This is the Utah Jazz fan forum where we celebrate the good, question moves and come up with ideas for a better future.

I don't know why normal, secure people would have issues with ideas. It's incredibly clear that this roster is flawed and our FO is more concerned about money than the ultimate goal of winning a title.

Baffles me that most of you are more upset with me than the ineptitude of the front office.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

Read the first sentence of my post again:

"The reason nobody likes hearing from you isn't because they disagree with you - it's because you keep shoving your opinion down everybody's throats the second the conversation starts to breathe."

Emphasis in bold.

 

[KqWIN]

Even if the Jazz strap up and use Ingles+First for an actual player instead of money savings, it's not the right type of move IMO. Come playoff time, rotations get shortened and you don't actually need 9 guys. You only need 7 or 8...sometimes 6 depending on how versatile your players are. If you get Eric Gordon, JC is going to get squeezed out of the rotation so you might as well just trade JC. I'd look for Ingles+JC+First deals (that's probably what they were dangling for Barnes/Grant) first, and I'd try to swindle HOU into taking JC+Ingles before Ingles+first.

 

[Jingled]

I would love to add Eric Gordon but I'm definitely not excited to give up a first round pick for a 33 year old with some injury history.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The bold move right now is to fire Snyder in-season. If we're passive and just going for money savings, we'll collapse again in the playoffs, fire Snyder at the end of the season, then waste more time of our limited Rudy/Donovan window.


This is the most depressed and aggravating part of this. It's been 15 years since we lucked into the WCF and we haven't been anywhere close since. Before that it had been nearly 10 years. What should be sobering to everyone is that it really isn't outside the realm of possibility that the talent level on this team is something we may very well not see for another 20-30 years. When you look at it that way (and that's not huge hyperbole), it's astounding the lack of urgency from the very top to the very bottom of this organization.

My issue now is any BIG move we make now feels like spending a **** ton of money to put a pool in a house that you are selling at a loss in 6 months. Just feel like the die is cast now.

Last offseason if we just roll with Favs and not sign Gay but bring in Paschall and retain the first until we have a chance to sell Favs for less than a first we might be in a better position. Just feels like DL's over allocation of resources to address backup center ultimately did us in. What a dumbass hill to die on. He survived a war then choked on a taco at the afterparty and died. It's maddening.

 

[LoPo]

Read the first sentence of my post again:

"The reason nobody likes hearing from you isn't because they disagree with you - it's because you keep shoving your opinion down everybody's throats the second the conversation starts to breathe."

Emphasis in bold.

So it's not okay for me to propose ideas when there are people on here doing the same amount?

Why are they proposing ideas in the first place? Because what we have won't work. But their opinion is okay?





Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Jingled]

 

[Avery]

I find it incredibly peaceful that the Lakers are a catastrophe and moving Westbrook's contract is nigh-impossible to sell for pennies on the dollar unless they give up even more of their barren cupboard of no first round picks for the next several years.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Even if the Jazz strap up and use Ingles+First for an actual player instead of money savings, it's not the right type of move IMO. Come playoff time, rotations get shortened and you don't actually need 9 guys. You only need 7 or 8...sometimes 6 depending on how versatile your players are. If you get Eric Gordon, JC is going to get squeezed out of the rotation so you might as well just trade JC. I'd look for Ingles+JC+First deals (that's probably what they were dangling for Barnes/Grant) first, and I'd try to swindle HOU into taking JC+Ingles before Ingles+first.

I don't see us taking back that much money for next year.

I could see us doing Ingles, JC, and a 1st for Gary Harris... or some **** like that.

 

[KqWIN]

I don't see us taking back that much money for next year.

I could see us doing Ingles, JC, and a 1st for Gary Harris... or some **** like that.

The Jazz have been weird about money they can have now versus later, but trading JC for an expiring might be more effective at saving cash (and avoiding tax) than trading Ingles this year. SAC appears to be a buyer, maybe the Jazz can trade JC for Lamb.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't see us taking back that much money for next year.

I could see us doing Ingles, JC, and a 1st for Gary Harris... or some **** like that.

We give a lotto protected first... they give a second they own this year from Indiana (this year's draft is said to be not deep... and they have their own pick in that range).

Its a big money saver they can sell to us as being all in.

 

[MT Steve]

So it's not okay for me to propose ideas when there are people on here doing the same amount?

Why are they proposing ideas in the first place? Because what we have won't work. But their opinion is okay?

There's a difference between proposing ideas and relentlessly spamming the same opinions over and over and over until the conversation gets derailed again. NUMBERICA said it better than I did:

I’m not doing the thing with you where you get dunked on for several pages in this thread for a third consecutive day. Just know that building around Don and Rudy was always and continues to be the 1000% correct decision.

We agree that they’ve ****ed up along the way.

Truthfully I'm just tired of checking this thread to read the discussion and seeing it you vs everybody. Every day. And to see you start today spamming your same exact opinion and practically baiting people into another long, drawn out argument, is exasperating.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz have been weird about money they can have now versus later, but trading JC for an expiring might be more effective at saving cash (and avoiding tax) than trading Ingles this year. SAC appears to be a buyer, maybe the Jazz can trade JC for Lamb.

the deal I laid out saves $5m in salary so like $15M in tax this year... something in that range anyway. Saves a bunch next year until they sign Montrez Harrell to the full MLE

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz have been weird about money they can have now versus later, but trading JC for an expiring might be more effective at saving cash (and avoiding tax) than trading Ingles this year. SAC appears to be a buyer, maybe the Jazz can trade JC for Lamb.

I also would do that deal... and with the Kings who knows what they do. Just call em everyday to check in.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I find it incredibly peaceful that the Lakers are a catastrophe and moving Westbrook's contract is nigh-impossible to sell for pennies on the dollar unless they give up even more of their barren cupboard of no first round picks for the next several years.

The Nets implosion is also fantastic!

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Are you actually satisfied with absolute underachieving job our front office has done to build around Rudy and Don?

Lmao. First, it’s not perfect team building, but nothing ever is, but are we the Kings, or wizards or just about every other team in the east or maybe the Clippers of the 80’s and 90’s? No, and thank god. What exactly do you think is going to happen if we do trade Mike, Bogey, and Clarkson? Will we be worse off? Same, or slightly better? One thing I can say with confidence is it won’t make us top tier contenders. I’m not saying don’t trade them, but let’s not screw ourselves in the process. I also don’t think you understand just how hard it can be to make a trade as a contender with few assets. You can’t just trade away Willy nilly like our core around Rudy and Donovan like it’s nothing.

So while it’s not perfect we are contenders and have been for most of the time since the mid 90’s, and I’ll take that over being the kings with no end to that level of pain and suffering. Part of building a championship roster is getting extremely lucky, especially for a small market team like Utah. Idiot!!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do wonder if Rudy Gay gets moved... weird energy there right now.