Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Handlogten's Heros]

I could see it centering around Morris. I agree about the bad vibes...I think he could help us on the court but adding him to an already somewhat toxic locker room seems like a really bad idea.

We’d need a new coach imo because Quin isn’t great at managing the vibes… he’s more of the “chess master” type per Andy Larsen.

 

[LoPo]

I’m more interested in a deal that involves dealing Mitchell to the Hawks and getting Hunter back along with a ton of other assets.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's not necessarily true. There have been plenty of players to be traded with 2 or even 1 year left on their deal for plenty. Donovan could go down in value, but his value might even go up if he gets more usage and doesn't have the share the ball with Mike Conley.

There is no truth to those people saying that Don definitely loses or gains value if we wait a year.

He’s 6th in the league in usage this year 5th last year. Not sure getting more usage will increase his value.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I’m more interested in a deal that involves dealing Mitchell to the Hawks and getting Hunter back along with a ton of other assets.

How is his defense?

 

[Elizah Huge]

That's not necessarily true. There have been plenty of players to be traded with 2 or even 1 year left on their deal for plenty. Donovan could go down in value, but his value might even go up if he gets more usage and doesn't have the share the ball with Mike Conley.

There is no truth to those people saying that Don definitely loses or gains value if we wait a year.

Please tell me the last time someone of Mitchell’s caliber was traded with 1 or 2 years left and got "plenty".

 

[LoPo]

He’s 6th in the league in usage this year 5th last year. Not sure getting more usage will increase his value.

I ask that you objectively watch this video. Please. Watch it, then we can discuss.

Donovan Mitchell attacks the painted area, and on almost every single finish in the lane, he is past his guy but has to deal with either Rudy's defender or Whiteside's defender. And before somebody makes a comment, he's not getting past his opponent using Rudy's screen every time. Don is simply blowing by his man sometimes.

If we had a system with bigs who could shoot, Don's finishing or his assist rate would go up substantially. When he gets to the paint, which he does and will, the opponent either gives up the outside shot or the layup.

Don has some amazing assists in this video for the slip screener. House and Royce both get the pass and dribble in for the finish. Rudy can't get the ball that high and dribble in. For as good a screen as Rudy sets, his pace towards the rim and Don's is just different. Players have styles and strengths. Don isn't a PG, but he can facilitate a bunch for a SG. A player like Trae plays in a way that feeds Rudy more. It's a style thing not a selfish thing.

Don doesn't play in a way that gets the best out of Rudy and Rudy doesn't have the skill set to play the way to get the best out of Don the facilitator.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqlrCkUX6ZQ

 

[Elizah Huge]

That's not necessarily true. There have been plenty of players to be traded with 2 or even 1 year left on their deal for plenty. Donovan could go down in value, but his value might even go up if he gets more usage and doesn't have the share the ball with Mike Conley.

There is no truth to those people saying that Don definitely loses or gains value if we wait a year.

Please tell me the last time someone of Mitchell’s caliber was traded with 1 or 2 years left and got "plenty".

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Please tell me the last time someone of Mitchell’s caliber was traded with 1 or 2 years left and got "plenty".

Jimmy Butler got a good return when Chicago moved him to Minnesota -- Lavine, Dunn and #7 pick. That's three lottery-level talents.

I might be willing to move Mitchell for #4 in this draft, plus a young player, plus another lottery-level pick. That's because I believe in Jaden Ivey being able to replace Mitchell.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I ask that you objectively watch this video. Please. Watch it, then we can discuss.

Donovan Mitchell attacks the painted area, and on almost every single finish in the lane, he is past his guy but has to deal with either Rudy's defender or Whiteside's defender. And before somebody makes a comment, he's not getting past his opponent using Rudy's screen every time. Don is simply blowing by his man sometimes.

If we had a system with bigs who could shoot, Don's finishing or his assist rate would go up substantially. When he gets to the paint, which he does and will, the opponent either gives up the outside shot or the layup.

Don has some amazing assists in this video for the slip screener. House and Royce both get the pass and dribble in for the finish. Rudy can't get the ball that high and dribble in. For as good a screen as Rudy sets, his pace towards the rim and Don's is just different. Players have styles and strengths. Don isn't a PG, but he can facilitate a bunch for a SG. A player like Trae plays in a way that feeds Rudy more. It's a style thing not a selfish thing.

Don doesn't play in a way that gets the best out of Rudy and Rudy doesn't have the skill set to play the way to get the best out of Don the facilitator.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqlrCkUX6ZQ

I mean the Rudy Donovan pick and roll was like the best in the league. I think Donovan has plenty of usage... which is the main thing I was questioning if it will increase his value. There is a chance not having Mike sends Donovan's usage up but his efficiency down.

5 out or pick and pop doesn't solve a lot of our issues... it'd be nice to have if the defense can hold up too. Bigs will still drop to the paint on pick and roll or trap forcing him to give it up. He will still either need to make a drop off pass or a pass to the corner.

The problem in this playoffs was primarily energy/focus and shooting. We shot 28% on catch and shoot threes in the playoffs... Donovan 18% and Mike 0%. We shot 36% in the regular season. Pullups we shot 27% vs 36% in regular season... zero of that is a Rudy problem.

If Rudy was better at catching and finishing a dump off pass then it would help... if Rudy could seal his guy and finish it would help. But the issues that will arise from trading Rudy on defense will be catastrophic.

I think Donovan should be a "PG" in that he needs to be the smallest guy on the floor... but we need guys that can pass or Donovan will start to get really inefficient. So I'd swap Conley for some length but the benefit of that is 100% on the defensive side of the ball. On offense it will hurt us not having him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jimmy Butler got a good return when Chicago moved him to Minnesota -- Lavine, Dunn and #7 pick. That's three lottery-level talents.

I might be willing to move Mitchell for #4 in this draft, plus a young player, plus another lottery-level pick. That's because I believe in Jaden Ivey being able to replace Mitchell.

Dunn was viewed as kind of a bust by then... and Chicago also gave a first back in the deal.

 

[LoPo]

Jimmy Butler got a good return when Chicago moved him to Minnesota -- Lavine, Dunn and #7 pick. That's three lottery-level talents.

I might be willing to move Mitchell for #4 in this draft, plus a young player, plus another lottery-level pick. That's because I believe in Jaden Ivey being able to replace Mitchell.

Exactly. And it's important to note that next summer, Don still has two years left AND a player option year. So technically, he could still have three years on that contract for the new team.

He's only 25 years old. He's a got a ton of value, and he'll have a ton of value next summer too.

 

[LoPo]

I mean the Rudy Donovan pick and roll was like the best in the league. I think Donovan has plenty of usage... which is the main thing I was questioning if it will increase his value. There is a chance not having Mike sends Donovan's usage up but his efficiency down.

5 out or pick and pop doesn't solve a lot of our issues... it'd be nice to have if the defense can hold up too. Bigs will still drop to the paint on pick and roll or trap forcing him to give it up. He will still either need to make a drop off pass or a pass to the corner.

The problem in this playoffs was primarily energy/focus and shooting. We shot 28% on catch and shoot threes in the playoffs... Donovan 18% and Mike 0%. We shot 36% in the regular season. Pullups we shot 27% vs 36% in regular season... zero of that is a Rudy problem.

If Rudy was better at catching and finishing a dump off pass then it would help... if Rudy could seal his guy and finish it would help. But the issues that will arise from trading Rudy on defense will be catastrophic.

I think Donovan should be a "PG" in that he needs to be the smallest guy on the floor... but we need guys that can pass or Donovan will start to get really inefficient. So I'd swap Conley for some length but the benefit of that is 100% on the defensive side of the ball. On offense it will hurt us not having him.

I think there are some stats that can prove almost any argument, but I just don't believe that the Don and Rudy PnR works come playoff time. I'm not blaming either player. Guys are just built differently with their strengths and weaknesses. I think Don works better with an agile/dynamic big in the PnR. There is a reason why Quin tries to run so much PnR with Conley/Rudy while Don plays a lot of his minutes with Rudy on the bench.

If we shoot better, I think we push that series to 7 games. You're right, it would help if we could shoot better.

As for defense, we will need a completely different gameplan if we trade Rudy. It will be a work in progress, but I believe we can still be fine. Next year isn't about being the #1 seed again. Next year would be about making the playoffs with signs of a better future using the Rudy trade assets.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The idea that Donovan's value is going to rise/stay the same is short-sighted. It's already dropped. he was viewed as a guy who could potentially make a move and become a perrenial top 10/15 type dude. This year he failed to prove that, so his value dropped. If he fails to prove it again, it's going to drop even more.

He's got to play much higher level defense and be a much high lever passer. Otherwise he's just Mountain Monta.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean the Rudy Donovan pick and roll was like the best in the league. I think Donovan has plenty of usage... which is the main thing I was questioning if it will increase his value. There is a chance not having Mike sends Donovan's usage up but his efficiency down.

5 out or pick and pop doesn't solve a lot of our issues... it'd be nice to have if the defense can hold up too. Bigs will still drop to the paint on pick and roll or trap forcing him to give it up. He will still either need to make a drop off pass or a pass to the corner.

The problem in this playoffs was primarily energy/focus and shooting. We shot 28% on catch and shoot threes in the playoffs... Donovan 18% and Mike 0%. We shot 36% in the regular season. Pullups we shot 27% vs 36% in regular season... zero of that is a Rudy problem.

If Rudy was better at catching and finishing a dump off pass then it would help... if Rudy could seal his guy and finish it would help. But the issues that will arise from trading Rudy on defense will be catastrophic.

I think Donovan should be a "PG" in that he needs to be the smallest guy on the floor... but we need guys that can pass or Donovan will start to get really inefficient. So I'd swap Conley for some length but the benefit of that is 100% on the defensive side of the ball. On offense it will hurt us not having him.

It would also help if the team actually designed plays and got Rudy these kinds of looks regularly, not just randomly and not even on a per game basis.

 

[homeytennis]

It appears that a majority of the trade Mitchell or Gobert rumors are originating with CAA a sports management agency. The Knicks President is a former agent there and Mike Conley is a current client. Let the conspiracy theories begin.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It appears that a majority of the trade Mitchell or Gobert rumors are originating with CAA a sports management agency. The Knicks President is a former agent there and Mike Conley is a current client. Let the conspiracy theories begin.

Everyone besides Lopo already knew this

 

[kcgar]

I ask that you objectively watch this video. Please. Watch it, then we can discuss.

Donovan Mitchell attacks the painted area, and on almost every single finish in the lane, he is past his guy but has to deal with either Rudy's defender or Whiteside's defender. And before somebody makes a comment, he's not getting past his opponent using Rudy's screen every time. Don is simply blowing by his man sometimes.

If we had a system with bigs who could shoot, Don's finishing or his assist rate would go up substantially. When he gets to the paint, which he does and will, the opponent either gives up the outside shot or the layup.

Don has some amazing assists in this video for the slip screener. House and Royce both get the pass and dribble in for the finish. Rudy can't get the ball that high and dribble in. For as good a screen as Rudy sets, his pace towards the rim and Don's is just different. Players have styles and strengths. Don isn't a PG, but he can facilitate a bunch for a SG. A player like Trae plays in a way that feeds Rudy more. It's a style thing not a selfish thing.

Don doesn't play in a way that gets the best out of Rudy and Rudy doesn't have the skill set to play the way to get the best out of Don the facilitator.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqlrCkUX6ZQ

Are you serious? This is the video you are using as a defense for Donovan? The only thing that this video shows positively for Donovan is that he can make a lot of circus shots. You claimed that he had to deal with Rudy or Whiteside's defender a lot. He had to once in that video and he should have passed it to Hassan but chose to go to a low percentage circus shot. Other times he was making the wrong decision by running into Rudy and Rudy's guy or creating a more cramped paint. He made ONE pass the entire video and it was a simple slip screen that any ball handler in the NBA can and should make. Again, if you want a person to take low percentage circus shots (granted more go in than you would think), especially on taller defenders, then Don is your guy.

 

[LoPo]

Are you serious? This is the video you are using as a defense for Donovan? The only thing that this video shows positively for Donovan is that he can make a lot of circus shots. You claimed that he had to deal with Rudy or Whiteside's defender a lot. He had to once in that video and he should have passed it to Hassan but chose to go to a low percentage circus shot. Other times he was making the wrong decision by running into Rudy and Rudy's guy or creating a more cramped paint. He made ONE pass the entire video and it was a simple slip screen that any ball handler in the NBA can and should make. Again, if you want a person to take low percentage circus shots (granted more go in than you would think), especially on taller defenders, then Don is your guy.

At not point at all did I use this as a defense of Donovan. It's a video to show play style.

When Don is driving into the paint and Rudy is down there, what the **** is Don supposed to do if he can't hit the miracle lob to Rudy? Just back it out every time Rudy is down there clogging the space unable to do **** because he can't post up?

Don hit 3 slip screen assists (2 to House and 1 to Royce). Rudy is a lob threat and not a slip screen threat at all. Don is a finisher at the rim. They don't mesh well together. Rudy needs a Lonzo, Trae, Chris Paul type. Don needs an inside/outside big man.

It's not a knock or credit to either. It's just how they are built. My video is about style.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think there are some stats that can prove almost any argument, but I just don't believe that the Don and Rudy PnR works come playoff time. I'm not blaming either player. Guys are just built differently with their strengths and weaknesses. I think Don works better with an agile/dynamic big in the PnR. There is a reason why Quin tries to run so much PnR with Conley/Rudy while Don plays a lot of his minutes with Rudy on the bench.

If we shoot better, I think we push that series to 7 games. You're right, it would help if we could shoot better.

As for defense, we will need a completely different gameplan if we trade Rudy. It will be a work in progress, but I believe we can still be fine. Next year isn't about being the #1 seed again. Next year would be about making the playoffs with signs of a better future using the Rudy trade assets.

It has in the past... either teams commit too much attention to Rudy on the roll and Donovan gets loose or shooters get open. It is the main action that starts the blender. The problem with Dallas was more about bad shooting. Against Denver, Clips, and Memphis last year the offense was very good.

Defense needs to be addressed either way. I think the systems there are a bigger problem than the offensive systems. The personnel needs a lot of help too.

It sounds as though the tone is Donovan and Rudy likely stay with some reconfiguration... which is smarter than trading just one of them unless there was a monster offer for Rudy. My guess with the new tone is that part of it is there was no monster offer out there at first kick of the tires. It could also be smokescreens to help increase the offers on the table. It could also be a realization that trading one of them leaves us in a position where we aren't good enough to have any all-stars.

So I'm cool with giving it a shot if they can find some wing help. It will be a tall order given that they won't use cap exceptions and their players have limited trade value.

 

[stitches]

Jazz Have No Desire To Enter Rebuild This Offseason

Jazz Have No Desire To Enter Rebuild This Offseason - RealGM Wiretap

basketball.realgm.com

Jazz Have No Desire To Enter Rebuild This Offseason
MAY 11, 2022 11:24 AM

The Utah Jazz will host the 2023 NBA All-Star Game, which multiple league sources have described as a "critical element of the franchise's future plans."
Jake Fischer of Bleacher Report adds that it is of "great importance to Jazz governor Ryan Smith that Utah has multiple players in that midseason classic."
The leadership of the Jazz have no "no designs of entering any sort of rebuild" this offseason despite their first round elimination.
Instead of pursuing a trade of either Donovan Mitchell or Rudy Gobert, the Jazz could explore the market for Bojan Bogdanovic, Royce O'Neale and Mike Conley.

I'm still on the fence of whether that's a good decision or not, but the reasoning is HORRIBLE! If they decide to keep Mitchell and Rudy I really hope it's not because of the All-Star Game.