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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Handlogten's Heros said:
Ahhh... Thx. I think I said they were starter level talents... I just think that is easy to replace.

FYI - I get not everyone shares my feelings on tanking. I really do enjoy the games and root for wins... it has become hilarious to hear my kids hear me get upset when we are losing and be like "don't you want them to lose" and for me to say "its complicated".

its just don't want to do the Al Jefferson years again where we win enough to stay in place... we have a tremendous amount of assets IF we can land a young budding star to pair with Lauri and our other youngsters we will be in for a short and fruitful period of non-playoff team fandom. Getting mediocre prospects is what will propel us towards Orlando/Sacramento treadmill land. Its a good year to be bad... it was a good year to sell off All-Stars... it just feels like we can time this so well and build something great.
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I'm with you all the way although I'd even sell off Lauri for a top 5 pick in this next draft. Having an up and coming 19-20 year old stud under their contractual control thru the first 2 contracts is just that huge.
 
HeatCheck said:
I'm with you all the way although I'd even sell off Lauri for a top 5 pick in this next draft. Having an up and coming 19-20 year old stud under their contractual control thru the first 2 contracts is just that huge.
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the return would have to be huge. I thought about it though. I think moving off Lauri is basically starting from scratch which is like a 3-4 year process... I think you can reasonably add a young stud with Lauri and make the process so much more smooth and short. This pick/draft is really critical to the rebuild and a pick in the teens could end up putting us in real treadmill territory.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Danny tore down a team that was a perennial playoff team for a team that, this year, will be a play in team at best.
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Ok you need to stop repeating this. You really think we were going to places with Rudy and DM? You paint that picture way too often. We were an asset poor team in cap hell who didnt beat any contender when properly schemed against.

DA took those trades because he was tasked to fix the issue at hand. He was not tasked to blow it up. He was tasked to rebuild the team.

If he really wanted to tank, he had done much poorer job on roster building (just sell Bogdy or trade him for a young guy). He had every justification to sell high early season because of the magic word "rebuild" was never gonna be questioned in our case and even when we started 3-0 everyone still thought we were just accidentally good.

He didnt. In fact he traded for KO with a sole purpose of making our roster better. Yet you somehow think he was aiming for the bottom.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I also think we got a little high on Vando... I think if we really had to dig in and to get a first you had to give up Vando and Bogey you do it. Likely get some seconds when you flip Crowder too.

Getting Kelly is the straw that broke the tank's back. It was a good competent vet at our biggest position of need. Truly fought against the tank.
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Yeah...and I think that he's a player that will shine next to stars (offense and defense) and we don't really have that player.

My first priority is simply building a better base of assets. Obviously draft position is part of that, but it's not the most important thing. I'm not going to trade Lauri, for example, just to get some percentage points and draft slots. I would like to move our older players and end up with guys like Collins and Quickley instead. Vando isn't old, but he might be able to get us those types of players combined with one of our good vets. Between Clarkson, Conley, Beasley, Olynyk....I can see a maximum of one of those guys being here two years from now and probably zero if we're being honest. We should try to get some second draft type guys.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I am a Collins fan. He was one of the main pieces I wanted back in a Gobert deal with the Hawks.

Beasley/Vando? Do we have to add a pick? It’s not extremely hard to make the salary work.
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I don't think we add a pick... that's buying at a medium price... I want to buy low. i think its a three team deal if it happens with Crowder. Our side would be Beasley/Vando/Gay (make Atlanta eat his 12M since they save 100M).
 
HermanG said:
Ok you need to stop repeating this. You really think we were going to places with Rudy and DM? You paint that picture way too often. We were an asset poor team in cap hell who didnt beat any contender when properly schemed against.

DA took those trades because he was tasked to fix the issue at hand. He was not tasked to blow it up. He was tasked to rebuild the team.

If he really wanted to tank, he had done much poorer job on roster building (just sell Bogdy or trade him for a young guy). He had every justification to sell high early season because of the magic word "rebuild" was never gonna be questioned in our case and even when we started 3-0 everyone still thought we were just accidentally good.

He didnt. In fact he traded for KO with a sole purpose of making our roster better. Yet you somehow think he was aiming for the bottom.
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Lol man... DA himself said the group had stagnated in the playoffs and he wanted to build a team that could compete for titles. He also said himself that they are surprised at how well the team did... so not on accident per se but he didn't think we'd be this good.

Its very likely he wanted a functional team to help guys develop. We didn't want to be the worst team in the league. The KO trade was the best deal we could get for Bogey and we told him we'd move him before camp... also saved us $5M. We had engaged with LA and Phoenix on deals that would return picks first... then settled on the KO deal.

Trade season really isn't "open" yet. So DA even if he planned to have a good lotto pick... really hasn't had much of a chance to sell high yet. And maybe he saw the rough opening schedule and thought "I will have time and can get a premium for these guys later". Then we won 3 close games... we got some injury luck and opponent shooting luck... and the team jelled faster than he thought. So now the record is 10-6 when it could easily be 7-9 or worse.

I think the plan all along has been to be opportunistic. That is still the plan but now we may be buyers instead of sellers... I'm okay with that if great opportunities arise. The biggest upside imo is still very much selling off some vets and ending in the lotto.

We also have to realize DA/JZ report to Ryan... and saying "we will tear it to studs and be the tanky sixers for two years" likely doesn't fly. So you tear down piece by piece as opportunities arise.
 
With regard to Collins... he's clearly not a player easy to trade. They been trying to move him for years now... so bid appropriately. He may get in a new situation and increase his value or might be movable for a different type of asset than the Hawks want... but you are likely stuck with him if you trade for him.
 
Jazz would look at Collins , the same way Lauri has come on in a different system

Trae is a chucker , Collins plus the rest of the hawks just run up and down the court watching Trae chuck or dribble

Guy I love is Hunter from the hawks , doesn’t get enough usage because of Trae
 
I don't know about Colins. He's solid but I've just never been a huge fan. I'm not sure we want to use that much of our cap space on him, I'd rather keep our flexibility and see what other options become available to us going forward. I'm also not sure how the fit would be with him and Lauri. Feels like the Hawks have been trying to trade him for a while without much luck, and with his contract, he may be hard to move in the future as well. We better be sure before we make a move for him, because if we trade for him, we may be stuck with him for a while.
 
^ I don't know. Demar is 33. Conley is 35. KO is 31. Not sure there's much of a long term future with that group.
Looking at that Bulls roster the guys I would have most interest in would be Ball(if he ever gets healthy) and Caruso.

Just throwing crap on the wall but the Knick fans are now desperate to dump RJ Barrett. He's a poison pill this season due to that extension. Is someone like him even worth the effort to try and develop or is the contract too terrible? I've been impressed with our coaching staff's work with Sexton and Kessler who have both improved during the season. Obviously Lauri is a new player this season too. Would RJ be worth a gamble at the wing position? He's not an efficient scorer. Doesn't really drive the ball either. At least THT is a better defender than RJ too. I may have already talked myself out of it.
 
HeatCheck said:
^ I don't know. Demar is 33. Conley is 35. KO is 31. Not sure there's much of a long term future with that group.
Looking at that Bulls roster the guys I would have most interest in would be Ball(if he ever gets healthy) and Caruso.

Just throwing crap on the wall but the Knick fans are now desperate to dump RJ Barrett. He's a poison pill this season due to that extension. Is someone like him even worth the effort to try and develop or is the contract too terrible? I've been impressed with our coaching staff's work with Sexton and Kessler who have both improved during the season. Obviously Lauri is a new player this season too. Would RJ be worth a gamble at the wing position? He's not an efficient scorer. Doesn't really drive the ball either. At least THT is a better defender than RJ too. I may have already talked myself out of it.
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Yeah, Demar is just so talented though. I think his skill-set would really fit. If they were really trying to win, it could be an interesting move. I just dont know what it would take. DeMar is playing like a 2nd team all-nba player.

He's older like you said and only has another year on his deal after this year. Maybe you can get him for two first, Sexton, and filler. IDK.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think the plan all along has been to be opportunistic. That is still the plan but now we may be buyers instead of sellers... I'm okay with that if great opportunities arise. The biggest upside imo is still very much selling off some vets and ending in the lotto.

We also have to realize DA/JZ report to Ryan... and saying "we will tear it to studs and be the tanky sixers for two years" likely doesn't fly. So you tear down piece by piece as opportunities arise.
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I think you hit the nail on the head with this one - the Don and Rudy trades were both meant to be opportunistic - and honestly it looks like it may have worked. Neither of those teams looks championship-caliber, and neither really has additional assets to go get more guys. So we’re sitting here with some high potential picks and a good team. It seems like there’s a better chance that we build a contender by holding those picks and being opportunistic in other trades than to completely tear it down and tank
 
David Stern said:
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one - the Don and Rudy trades were both meant to be opportunistic - and honestly it looks like it may have worked. Neither of those teams looks championship-caliber, and neither really has additional assets to go get more guys. So we’re sitting here with some high potential picks and a good team. It seems like there’s a better chance that we build a contender by holding those picks and being opportunistic in other trades than to completely tear it down and tank
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Although I agree the return from the Cavs was opportunistic, and the players that we got are more than enough value, having the Cavs picks is looking less that are more just another trade up chip or two at best. Cavs when healthy this year beat up the Celtics twice. Unless Cleveland can't stay healthy in the next couple seasons those picks are late first. Wolves return is more about picks obviously and this years for sure.
 
Eddie Zero said:
Although I agree the return from the Cavs was opportunistic, and the players that we got are more than enough value, having the Cavs picks is looking less that are more just another trade up chip or two at best. Cavs when healthy this year beat up the Celtics twice. Unless Cleveland can't stay healthy in the next couple seasons those picks are late first. Wolves return is more about picks obviously and this years for sure.
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Those picks don’t start conveying until the 2025 draft and Donovan can opt out before the 2025-2026 season. So we could theoretically control their picks for the four drafts (26,27,28,29) right after losing a superstar.
 
David Stern said:
Those picks don’t start conveying until the 2025 draft and Donovan can opt out before the 2025-2026 season. So we could theoretically control their picks for the four drafts (26,27,28,29) right after losing a superstar.
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yeah very true. However that team is good enough without him to not be in the lottery, even if liosing him gets them one season in the lottery they will get another free agent to replace him that wants to play with those dudes. Garland has had a rough season getting hurt early, and he is still playing pretty high level , unless they lose Mobley they aint going away.
 
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