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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

LoPo said:
I consider 23 points (on 53% shooting), 9 assists (should have been like 15 if guys would have hit wide open looks) and 8 rebounds better than an average game.

We can argue this all we want, but nobody in the NBA can carry a team on their own. Excellent players can be the difference if their team is good enough, but they can't carry a team. Minus maybe LeBron James, but he might be the only guy in the history of the league to do it.
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That's fine... had 5 turnovers as well, but sure that can be a good game. Its not like a Playoff Jimmy game doe. Stars can play good in one individual game and still lose... but if Donovan is good over the series we win.

We can argue but argue the right points. No one star can carry their team to a title... but in general those teams will go as far as their biggest star takes them. Our team ceiling will be largely determined on how good Donovan gets. That is in no way a knock... just a cold hard truth.

Dallas is essentially a one star team and Luka carried them to the western conference finals... he needed some help but if Brunson, Kleber, DFS are all out of their minds awesome and Luka isn't good they lose.
 
Ya just have to follow simple logic. If Donovan becomes a plus defender and a better playmaker then you have a chance to have a team with no defensive holes because you don't need a point guard next to him. You can play more 3 and D types and the defense might actually hold up in the playoffs.

Simple removing Bogey and Mike with 3 and D players with Donovan as is will place a big ole target on Donovan that will get attacked to no end in the playoffs... and will lead to the team not having enough offense because there aren't any secondary creators. Add those guys while removing Rudy and the defense has less teeth and maybe the offense is more spread out... but it won't matter much as Donovan still has to beat his guy and the help defender.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
That's fine... had 5 turnovers as well, but sure that can be a good game. Its not like a Playoff Jimmy game doe. Stars can play good in one individual game and still lose... but if Donovan is good over the series we win.

We can argue but argue the right points. No one star can carry their team to a title... but in general those teams will go as far as their biggest star takes them. Our team ceiling will be largely determined on how good Donovan gets. That is in no way a knock... just a cold hard truth.

Dallas is essentially a one star team and Luka carried them to the western conference finals... he needed some help but if Brunson, Kleber, DFS are all out of their minds awesome and Luka isn't good they lose.
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Of course the team's best player needs to make big plays, but there are plenty of fantastic players who make big plays and those teams don't even make the playoffs or advance. LeBron had an MVP calibur type year and he didn't even make the playoffs. I've already mentioned KD.

Donovan has been one of the best playoff performers the last few years before this year. Our supporting cast and our system is just flawed. It ain't enough.

Luka has a number of capable perimeter defenders to throw at opposing teams. If he plays well and scores a ton, they actually have players who can slow down the opponent. And it ain't Luka slowing down opponents with his defense. It's teammates. Add in that Brunson is a better offensive player than anybody we have not named Donovan. Dinwiddie isn't bad either. Kleber is out there defending better than Bojan and shooting as well has he does.

The biggest thing - Dallas can play modern day NBA basketball. We are stuck with playing just one way.
 
LoPo said:
I consider 23 points (on 53% shooting), 9 assists (should have been like 15 if guys would have hit wide open looks) and 8 rebounds better than an average game.

We can argue this all we want, but nobody in the NBA can carry a team on their own. Excellent players can be the difference if their team is good enough, but they can't carry a team. Minus maybe LeBron James, but he might be the only guy in the history of the league to do it.
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Because everyone knows NBA players shoot 100% on open shots lmao
 
LoPo said:
Of course the team's best player needs to make big plays, but there are plenty of fantastic players who make big plays and those teams don't even make the playoffs or advance. LeBron had an MVP calibur type year and he didn't even make the playoffs. I've already mentioned KD.

Donovan has been one of the best playoff performers the last few years before this year. Our supporting cast and our system is just flawed. It ain't enough.

Luka has a number of capable perimeter defenders to throw at opposing teams. If he plays well and scores a ton, they actually have players who can slow down the opponent. And it ain't Luka slowing down opponents with his defense. It's teammates. Add in that Brunson is a better offensive player than anybody we have not named Donovan. Dinwiddie isn't bad either. Kleber is out there defending better than Bojan and shooting as well has he does.

The biggest thing - Dallas can play modern day NBA basketball. We are stuck with playing just one way.
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Is this the new Lopo Talking Point?

The NBA team with one of the best offenses that has been #1 and #2 the past two seasons in 3 point attempts is not modern basketball?
 
THe real issue: Donovan makes no one better on offense and actively makes his teammates worse on defense.

Stellar individual scorer. Not **** as a leader, a trashcan in the clutch, and a dumpster on defense.
 
LoPo said:
That's just bogus. As ridiculous as saying we would be a contender if Rudy could create his own offense and score 25 a game.

Our supporting cast is a joke. Everybody is so incredibly one dimensional. Easy to guard and easy to attack.




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The jazz had the #1 offense in the regular season. You don’t do that with subpar players around him.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
The jazz had the #1 offense in the regular season. You don’t do that with subpar players around him.
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The Tennessee Titans had the #1 seed in the entire AFC last year. Regular season and postseason are just two completely different competitions.

We averaged less than 100ppg against Dallas with our "#1 offense in the regular season."
 
Good lord Lopo is a complete jackass for overly focusing on offense.

Utah has been stellar offensively the past two seasons. They faltered this year in the playoffs, but that's a 6 game sample size.

Wonder why he focusing on offense when it's clearly defense? And who is the biggest offender on defense? Donovan Mitchell

This is like Republicans trying to blame gun deaths on everything but ease of access to guns.
 
LoPo said:
The Tennessee Titans had the #1 seed in the entire AFC last year. Regular season and postseason are just two completely different competitions.

We averaged less than 100ppg against Dallas with our "#1 offense in the regular season."
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Yeah, crazy, it's like when your main scorer decides to miss all his 3 pointers and shoot below 40% your offense is going to suffer a bit.
 
LoPo said:
Of course the team's best player needs to make big plays, but there are plenty of fantastic players who make big plays and those teams don't even make the playoffs or advance. LeBron had an MVP calibur type year and he didn't even make the playoffs. I've already mentioned KD.

Donovan has been one of the best playoff performers the last few years before this year. Our supporting cast and our system is just flawed. It ain't enough.

Luka has a number of capable perimeter defenders to throw at opposing teams. If he plays well and scores a ton, they actually have players who can slow down the opponent. And it ain't Luka slowing down opponents with his defense. It's teammates. Add in that Brunson is a better offensive player than anybody we have not named Donovan. Dinwiddie isn't bad either. Kleber is out there defending better than Bojan and shooting as well has he does.

The biggest thing - Dallas can play modern day NBA basketball. We are stuck with playing just one way.
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Dallas works because of Luka... If Donovan landed on Dallas' roster and Luka landed on the Jazz roster in a 1 for 1 trade what does the series look like. Luka provides some defensive value as a rebounder and just due to his size.

If we are going to do non-rudy and add 3 and D wings our team success will be tied to how well Donovan develops as a passer and defender... It will be true with Rudy... it will be even more true without him.

Also, KD lost to the the team in the finals... was a toe nail away from beating the team that won it all last year. His supporting cast has been garbage the last two years.... Lebron and AD had all sorts or injuries. Best player in the series doesn't always hold true. It simply shows how hard it is to win at the highest levels. If you think Donovan can be the best player on a conference finals team without improving in big ways on defense and playmaking then I'm not sure what to tell you. If you don't believe that then we better get a star that is better than he is.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, crazy, it's like when your main scorer decides to miss all his 3 pointers and shoot below 40% your offense is going to suffer a bit.
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That is Mike and Rudy's fault obvi. Also the system made him miss...
 
It wouldn't be as Donovan dependent if we had a couple young prospects coming up that showed real promise. We don't have that... and we haven't had that for a few years... if we move Rudy for some of those types the timeline with Donovan gets wonky.

Its just so clearly over... spin what we have and invest it in the next great team rather than draining it so dorky Ryan can think he's cool over the AS break.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Cool… so there are instances of good star players losing… great. But look just a little closer… What was missing with that Denver team… could it be they didn’t have their other star? What about when Don went nuclear… could it be the other two stars out-starred him? Also what happened in LA this year… could it be there stars were out or hurt a lot… they’ve had one healthy playoff game run and won a title sooooooo….

THIS TEAM WILL GO AS FAR AS DONOVAN TAKES THEM… is a simplified version of tying this team to his ceiling because we have no other player with a higher potential ceiling and there are no prospects coming up at all. This teams ceiling depends on how Donovan develops… primarily as a defender and playmaker because those are the areas he is most deficient. If he improves as a shot maker that’s great too but he’s already pretty good there. If not he’s a worse version of Dame and a team lead by Dame ain’t going beyond the conference finals if they get extreme luck… if they have another bigger star they have a higher ceiling.

It’s not hard.
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You mean Donovan scored 3rd highest pts in a playoff game and somehow still got "outstarred" is why we lost that game? Denver had MJ coming out of his retirement or what?
 
LoPo said:
I've said Don played poorly, but putting the series loss on Don is just another lame *** attempt by you morons.

Don played series like MJ, and we lost. He played poorly, and we lost.

Blame the real factors.

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I love how you jump in and protect Donovan without really considering what I said. I said this team will go as far as Donovan takes them... I've said that for like 2-3 years... before the great and ****** playoffs. He was always going to have to be a creator on offense and a good defender. If he wasn't going to be a two-way star in the mold of Jimmy or Kawhi then Donovan plus Rudy wouldn't be good enough.

That statement recognizes Donovan's awesome potential and Rudy's limitations. If I thought he could improve I'd anchor our ceiling to Rudy.

We won't win every series where Donovan plays well, but his play is the baseline that will raise the team's ceiling. Re-arrange all the deck chairs you want... it will still be true unless we find a star who is better than him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Dallas works because of Luka... If Donovan landed on Dallas' roster and Luka landed on the Jazz roster in a 1 for 1 trade what does the series look like. Luka provides some defensive value as a rebounder and just due to his size.

If we are going to do non-rudy and add 3 and D wings our team success will be tied to how well Donovan develops as a passer and defender... It will be true with Rudy... it will be even more true without him.

Also, KD lost to the the team in the finals... was a toe nail away from beating the team that won it all last year. His supporting cast has been garbage the last two years.... Lebron and AD had all sorts or injuries. Best player in the series doesn't always hold true. It simply shows how hard it is to win at the highest levels. If you think Donovan can be the best player on a conference finals team without improving in big ways on defense and playmaking then I'm not sure what to tell you. If you don't believe that then we better get a star that is better than he is.
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Luka has "some" defensive value as a rebounder... Not a lot. He still relies on his teammates to rebound and play defense, basically covering all the dirty work so he didn't need to do it. Putting him on this Jazz team won't change that. We will still allow folks like Brunson and Mann drop 40 on us.

IF we can add 3 and D wings our success will depend on how good Donovan is. Sure. But that's a big IF so i'm not sure you can just jump to any conclusion right now when we aren't anywhere close to that point.
 
jom2003 said:
You mean Donovan scored 3rd highest pts in a playoff game and somehow still got "outstarred" is why we lost that game? Denver had MJ coming out of his retirement or what?
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No but Denver's two stars were more effective than Donovan and Rudy that game. They scored a combined 65 pts. on the most insane shooting percentages. We also did not have Mike. I don't blame Don for that loss but sometimes the other stars can overcome a good star performance.

Donovan was bonkers in that series... Rudy didn't hold up his end of the deal imo... it came down to a few points so its really a toss up. But yeah Jokic and Murray out starred Donovan and Rudy in that series.
 
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