Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Elizah Huge]

Offensively, maybe. Capela has been much worse with a much better passer.

Defensively...we're going to swap places with ATL. Not going to pretty at all.

I just have that 2019 Houston series burned into my brain when Capela outplayed Gobert.

Atlanta was 15th in defensive rating not as bad as you guys make it sound.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Right....Capela+Collins+16 sounds like an outstanding deal for ATL. I think the Jazz will push for another pick, JJ, or even Hunter. ATL has a variety of assets to get it done.

If we're looking for Huerter (who I really like), I'd try to see if we can move Conley instead of Bogey. Maybe do the WAS deal and send KCP to ATL. We get Bogdan/Huerter.

I think Bogey is easier to trade and more valuable if we keep him than Conley. I'd try to opportunistic as possible with Conley.

Not sure if it can be worked in... but a construction I threw out there (assuming we got Huerter) was Mike going to Washington, KCP to Atlanta, #16 pick goes to Was... we get the #10 pick.

Washington is in win now mode so sliding back 6 spots may not be a big deal. It allows a chance to take Sochan, Daniels, or Sharpe (that would be a wild *** swing by Danny). Washington can likely nab TyTy if the want a PGOTF to groom behind Mike.

I'd also be fine doing the deal and then trading Mike or JC (whoever has the most value). If you keep Mike you just bring him off the bench.

 

[LoPo]

It's kind of funny how relying on Rudy Gobert to be the only defensive player is being spun into Quin doing everything he can to build around Rudy....as if having actual defenders would make things tougher on Rudy.

It's funny how building everything around Rudy was spun into Rudy is relied on as the only defensive player.

Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Oh, okay. Rudy is the only uncertain variable with a coaching change.

I heard the hang up is Atlanta wants Quin's notes to teach them how to get beat on straight line drives to boost Rudy's impact on the game.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Collins is also massively underrated around here. He had a bad playoff series. He averages 16/8 for his career.

With Collins and Huerter I think its a fascinating experiment. Were they the beneficiaries of Trae's great passing or were they somewhat neutered by his ball dominance and they have a bit more to give.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I may get destroyed for this but I think Capela could provide 80-85% of what Rudy does for us.

You should because if that's true then there is no reason for the Hawks to be throwing all of these assets for Rudy.

 

[Elizah Huge]

You should because if that's true then there is no reason for the Hawks to be throwing all of these assets for Rudy.

20% is the difference between a good starter and an all-star.

 

[KqWIN]

I just have that 2019 Houston series burned into my brain when Capela outplayed Gobert.

Atlanta was 15th in defensive rating not as bad as you guys make it sound.

In the 2019 HOU series Capela did not outplay Gobert, and 2019 Capela was significantly better than 2022 Capela.

ATL was 26th in defense this year....and if you look at the numbers when Capela and Gobert were on the court that difference is massive.

All of these "percentage of what Rudy does" are arbitrary....What percent describes a drop from a top 5 defense to a bottom 5 defense....which is what we can reasonably expect...then add the offensive drop off on top of that.

 

[infection]

You should because if that's true then there is no reason for the Hawks to be throwing all of these assets for Rudy.

Do we all remember when Whiteside/Gobert was a debate? We all saw how that worked out.

 

[Elizah Huge]

In the 2019 HOU series Capela did not outplay Gobert, and 2019 Capela was significantly better than 2022 Capela.

ATL was 26th in defense this year....and if you look at the numbers when Capela and Gobert were on the court that difference is massive.

All of these "percentage of what Rudy does" are arbitrary....What percent describes a drop from a top 5 defense to a bottom 5 defense....which is what we can reasonably expect...then add the offensive drop off on top of that.

In what ****ing world did Capela not outplay Gobert in that series? Are you kidding?

 

[KqWIN]

In what ****ing world did Capela not outplay Gobert in that series? Are you kidding?

In the world where they scored the same points, grabbed the same rebounds, and where Rudy was significantly more efficient and had a much tougher task defensively.

 

[Elizah Huge]

In the world where they scored the same points, grabbed the same rebounds, and where Rudy was significantly more efficient and had a much tougher task defensively.

Significantly more efficient? Lol they averaged the same FG%.

Rudy was an average of -10 per game and Capela was +8.2 per game.

To win a series like that our best player can’t be a wash with their 3rd or 4th best player.

Is that not getting outplayed?

 

[KqWIN]

Capela On/OFF defensive rating

21/22 : 115.6 ON - 114.4 OFF
20/21: 110.3 ON - 116.7 OFF

Gobert On/OFF defensive rating

21/22: 108.0 ON - 115.0 OFF
20/21: 103.7 ON - 116.4 OFF

Capela wasn't playing with great defensive teammates....but it's not like he'd be getting an upgrade in that department playing for UTA.

 

[infection]

In the world where they scored the same points, grabbed the same rebounds, and where Rudy was significantly more efficient and had a much tougher task defensively.

Ah yeah but Rudy proved he couldn’t simultaneously guard Harden/Paul and the Capela lob when there was no helping the helper.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You should because if that's true then there is no reason for the Hawks to be throwing all of these assets for Rudy.

20% is the difference between a good starter and an all-star.

I think the lines get a little blurred. I think Clint was battling an injury most of last year. I think he is 80% of what Rudy is when fully healthy.... I also think JC is 80% of what Don is... that 20% makes a whole lot of difference. If I said trade Donovan and just rock with JC because he is 80% of Don some would go nuts.

That 20% difference could represent 10-15 less wins during the season unless we improve in other areas.

A relatively healthy Jazz with Don, Huerter, Collins, Capela, KCP, Royce, some rookie who is not great... ends up winning 40-45 games and is the 10th seed in the play in, but you are young and have divided some assets that hopefully means you have less catastrophic injury risk if Rudy were to get hurt. Maybe it makes you more flexible come playoff time. The draft capital gives you a chance to "pop" and be a little more.

As currently constructed we are a 47-52 win team that likely gets busted up in the playoffs in one way or another.

Either way Donovan asks out in 12 months (either through not signing an extension or explicit stating he wants out). Sorry to spoil the end of the book.

 

[KqWIN]

Significantly more efficient? Lol they averaged the same FG%.

Rudy was an average of -10 per game and Capela was +8.2 per game.

To win a series like that our best player can’t be a wash with their 3rd or 4th best player.

Is that not getting outplayed?

It's 2022 and you should know that FG% is not efficiency. Gobert TS was 66.5% compared to Capela at 57%. That is a massive difference. The world in which their efficiency is similar is a world where you do not consider making FT's meaningful in any capacity.

ON/OFF in a five game sample size is hilarious. Now compare how the other players on the court were doing when these two were on the floor. Was the difference in their play, or the play of the others? Easy answer.

You just admitted to them playing to a wash....which is by definition not being outplayed. They didn't play to a wash, but even if they did that is a wash not being outplayed.

 

[KqWIN]

Ah yeah but Rudy proved he couldn’t simultaneously guard Harden/Paul and the Capela lob when there was no helping the helper.

I mean....he kinda did with Harden? Harden and Capela did not have great offensive series against Rudy 2v1. CP3 was the killer because he had a mid range game. So yeah....total liability for the inability to guard a CP3 mid range shot and lob at the same time.

Meanwhile, Capela really stood out defensively in HOU's strategy of leaving every Jazz player wide open and packing the paint. Rudy could never play the same level of defense the air played on UTA shooters in that series.

 

[Elizah Huge]

It's 2022 and you should know that FG% is not efficiency. Gobert TS was 66.5% compared to Capela at 57%. That is a massive difference. The world in which their efficiency is similar is a world where you do not consider making FT's meaningful in any capacity.

ON/OFF in a five game sample size is hilarious. Now compare how the other players on the court were doing when these two were on the floor. Was the difference in their play, or the play of the others? Easy answer.

You just admitted to them playing to a wash....which is by definition not being outplayed. They didn't play to a wash, but even if they did that is a wash not being outplayed.

Our best player being a wash with their 3rd/4th best player at the same position is the very definition of getting outplayed.

 

[LoPo]

I think the lines get a little blurred. I think Clint was battling an injury most of last year. I think he is 80% of what Rudy is when fully healthy.... I also think JC is 80% of what Don is... that 20% makes a whole lot of difference. If I said trade Donovan and just rock with JC because he is 80% of Don some would go nuts.

That 20% difference could represent 10-15 less wins during the season unless we improve in other areas.

A relatively healthy Jazz with Don, Huerter, Collins, Capela, KCP, Royce, some rookie who is not great... ends up winning 40-45 games and is the 10th seed in the play in, but you are young and have divided some assets that hopefully means you have less catastrophic injury risk if Rudy were to get hurt. Maybe it makes you more flexible come playoff time. The draft capital gives you a chance to "pop" and be a little more.

As currently constructed we are a 47-52 win team that likely gets busted up in the playoffs in one way or another.

Either way Donovan asks out in 12 months (either through not signing an extension or explicit stating he wants out). Sorry to spoil the end of the book.

Great post and breakdown. The win total more depends on who we hire than how we spin our trades.

I didn't like the end, but I didn't write the book.

 

[infection]

Either way Donovan asks out in 12 months (either through not signing an extension or explicit stating he wants out). Sorry to spoil the end of the book.

Yes, but Ryan believes this is a Choose Your Own Adventure book.