Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[cowhide]

Because as he’s gotten older he’s become more selfish?

Plays less defense?

Has become more of a stat stuffer than a winning player?

What evidence is there saying he is more selfish? He never really has played defense. He has had moments, but his job was to be the primary scorer. Jazz have won plenty since he has been in the league. The failure is in the playoffs. DM has been great sometimes and not so other times. Again, basketball is a team sport and there is plenty of blame to go around for losing in the playoffs.

 

[TheStormofWar]

I just have one concern from what I’m seeing reported:

If the Jazz really believe DM is the franchise player we can build around, we’re in big trouble.

Cuz he isn’t.

That’s my concern. We’re going to have to build up a much better supporting cast than Tatum has bc Mitchell isn’t Tatum. I think we might be better off trading Mitchell and kickstarting the tank rather than trying to build around short James Harden.

I'm actually pretty sure it's just posturing. If Utah wants to keep Donovan happy, they are going about it the wrong, almost opposite way. I think Utah's just waiting for the Gobert-level deal before proceeding, but KD's demand is throwing a spanner in the works somewhat.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I just have one concern from what I’m seeing reported:

If the Jazz really believe DM is the franchise player we can build around, we’re in big trouble.

Cuz he isn’t.

That’s my concern. We’re going to have to build up a much better supporting cast than Tatum has bc Mitchell isn’t Tatum. I think we might be better off trading Mitchell and kickstarting the tank rather than trying to build around short James Harden.

This seems short sided to me. He is a franchise player. I hate what he all of a sudden became this last year, but you absolutely can build a team around him. Last year it felt like he regressed as a team oriented play maker. Two years ago this team was successful due in large part to Mitchell playing within the offense. He was a more willing passer, and a more consistent shooter because his offense was more in sync with the rest of the team. Make him the full time starting pg, get athletic long wings that can defend (don’t even need to be elite defenders, just capable) around him, if he’s bought in he’s good to go. He never really seemed bought into the team last year.

 

[The Thriller]

What evidence is there saying he is more selfish?

My eyeballs.

He never really has played defense.

Not true

He has had moments, but his job was to be the primary scorer.

He didn’t have to be, especially these past few years. It’s interesting how the “need” for him to be the primary scorer has increased while the weapons around him have increased in number. Almost like he’s become a selfish stat stuffer.

Jazz have won plenty since he has been in the league. The failure is in the playoffs.

Oh really? I would’ve never known. Did anyone else know this?

DM has been great sometimes and not so other times.

Great observation.

Again, basketball is a team sport and there is plenty of blame to go around for losing in the playoffs.

Pretty sure that was the whole premise of my previous post. Spida is not the guy you want to build your franchise around. Basketball is a team sport.

 

[The Thriller]

This seems short sided to me. He is a franchise player. I hate what he all of a sudden became this last year, but you absolutely can build a team around him. Last year it felt like he regressed as a team oriented play maker. Two years ago this team was successful due in large part to Mitchell playing within the offense. He was a more willing passer, and a more consistent shooter because his offense was more in sync with the rest of the team. Make him the full time starting pg, get athletic long wings that can defend (don’t even need to be elite defenders, just capable) around him, if he’s bought in he’s good to go. He never really seemed bought into the team last year.

Spida is a second wheel, not a first wheel. He’s Brown, he’s not Tatum. Hes Robin, not Batman. He’s not a franchise player. It’ll be a huge mistake building around him (which we just attempted and failed).

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

I just have one concern from what I’m seeing reported:

If the Jazz really believe DM is the franchise player we can build around, we’re in big trouble.

Cuz he isn’t.

That’s my concern. We’re going to have to build up a much better supporting cast than Tatum has bc Mitchell isn’t Tatum. I think we might be better off trading Mitchell and kickstarting the tank rather than trying to build around short James Harden.

Perfect resume of the situation. Unless we are able to put around him much greater player than the one currently here, there is zero chance to win anything.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think they trade Donovan. You move all his buddies and then say “we open to trading him for the right price”. Guy was already kinda iffy on staying here… this would obviously piss him off. Wendy’s prophesy is not yet fully fulfilled,

 

[TheStormofWar]

I think they trade Donovan. You move all his buddies and then say “we open to trading him for the right price”. Guy was already kinda iffy on staying here… this would obviously piss him off. Wendy’s prophesy is not yet fully fulfilled,

Don's probably asked out already. Utah's is posturing for picks.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Spida is a second wheel, not a first wheel. He’s Brown, he’s not Tatum. Hes Robin, not Batman. He’s not a franchise player. It’ll be a huge mistake building around him (which we just attempted and failed).

I never said it was easy to build around him, just that you could, which is why I’d rather trade him, but to say you can’t build around him is garbage and lazy.

 

[The Thriller]

I never said it was easy to build around him, just that you could, which is why I’d rather trade him, but to say you can’t build around him is garbage and lazy.

Wut?

 

[The Thriller]

I think they trade Donovan. You move all his buddies and then say “we open to trading him for the right price”. Guy was already kinda iffy on staying here… this would obviously piss him off. Wendy’s prophesy is not yet fully fulfilled,

I agree with this. And I hope it’s true. Because Spida isn’t the franchise guy. He’d be a good sidekick, a Jaylen Brown. We’re still in search of our Tatum.

 

[LogGrad98]

Great post. I don't understand how some people have soured on DM. He was the toast of the town when he exploded on the scene his rookie year. MJ, Curry won squat before they built a championship team around them. Basketball is team sport. The problem wasn't Rudy or DM, it was the flawed supporting cast that was the problem. It was time to trade Rudy simply because of his contract and his age. I am sorry to see him go. He always played hard and seem to like Utah. I will miss DM too. He was one of the greatest draft picks in Jazz history. He is a great offensive player but the criticism of his defense is warranted just like Rudy's offense. In the end I think clearinghouse is the best path forward even if it means saying goodbye to popular players. I planned on wishing them well and success except against us.

You can only watch a guy give less than half effort on the court and purposely freeze out the only guy playing hard the entire game so much before you catch on he's not the guy you thought he was. Mitchell's a nice half a player. He's the guard version of Jabari Parker, you know, who doesn't get paid to play defense. It's actually even more shocking how so many fans give him a complete pass and fully excuse that kind of ********. Oh no, he's a precious flower who can only score the ball, how dare anyone expect him to do anything like play even the most basic defense, like you know, NOT just letting his guy walk to the rim. That's why many have soured on him and are calling him a diva. He's acting like, well, a diva.

Keep in mind when he exploded on the scene his rookie year he was a decent defender, he kind of did it all. His defense, especially in the playoffs, has gotten worse every single year, to the point the last 2 seasons he's been a net negative on defense. He came out of college known for sticking to his man and playing good D and his offensive ability was a revelation. He's completely flipped the script and become one of the best playoff scorers of all time, while becoming one of the worst playoff defenders in the same breath. Doesn't help when you score 50 points twice in one series only to allow your far less talented opponent to do the same thing, and worse, let them win several won games. Mitchell is largely fools gold unfortunately. Time to trade him too.

 

[Jazz Traveler]

I want nothing to do with Ayton or Simmons. Culture matters. Trade Mitchell for rookies/young prospects/ and all the draft picks. No more dysfunction in the locker room. Start over and do it right.

 

[The Thriller]

You can only watch a guy give less than half effort on the court and purposely freeze out the only guy playing hard the entire game so much before you catch on he's not the guy you thought he was. Mitchell's a nice half a player. He's the guard version of Jabari Parker, you know, who doesn't get paid to play defense. It's actually even more shocking how so many fans give him a complete pass and fully excuse that kind of ********. Oh no, he's a precious flower who can only score the ball, how dare anyone expect him to do anything like play even the most basic defense, like you know, NOT just letting his guy walk to the rim. That's why many have soured on him and are calling him a diva. He's acting like, well, a diva.

Keep in mind when he exploded on the scene his rookie year he was a decent defender, he kind of did it all. His defense, especially in the playoffs, has gotten worse every single year, to the point the last 2 seasons he's been a net negative on defense. He came out of college known for sticking to his man and playing good D and his offensive ability was a revelation. He's completely flipped the script and become one of the best playoff scorers of all time, while becoming one of the worst playoff defenders in the same breath. Doesn't help when you score 50 points twice in one series only to allow your far less talented opponent to do the same thing, and worse, let them win several won games. Mitchell is largely fools gold unfortunately. Time to trade him too.

Well put.

And I want nothing to do with teaming Ayton up with Spida. Let’s rip the bandaid off and start the rebuild. Not prolong mediocrity with a severely flawed roster

 

[LogGrad98]

Chicago had less around MJ when they then added Phil Jackson and Pippen (both added in 1987) than Donovan has around him now.

Coaching is the most important thing followed by a roster that makes sense.

We have players who could fetch us assets. We have solid role players now. And we have assets to make picks or deals.

There is no reason to trade Donovan Mitchell if he wants to stay.



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Other than MJ was far far better of a defender already. He has several all-defensive teams in his career. Mitchell has made it clear he won't play defense, and doesn't care, and had no problem hanging it all on Gobert. If they build around Donovan they better focus on people who can hide his complete lack of effort for half the game. Because they gave up the all-world defender that covered up so many of his weaknesses that he willed us to several series wins despite much of the team doing nothing on the defensive end except funneling everyone to the middle and letting their guy just waltz on by. If they don't fill the massive void left by Gobert we'll be lucky to win 30 games.

 

[The Thriller]

Other than MJ was far far better of a defender already. He has several all-defensive teams in his career. Mitchell has made it clear he won't play defense, and doesn't care, and had no problem hanging it all on Gobert. If they build around Donovan they better focus on people who can hide his complete lack of effort for half the game. Because they gave up the all-world defender that covered up so many of his weaknesses that he willed us to several series wins despite much of the team doing nothing on the defensive end except funneling everyone to the middle and letting their guy just waltz on by. If they don't fill the massive void left by Gobert we'll be lucky to win 30 games.

Which would be a stupid strategy. It hasn’t worked for Harden. Is Mitchell a better offensive player overall than Harden? Will we ever find a better coach that matches Mitchell and enables him than Snyder? Building around Mitchell would be a huge mistake. Why would we follow down the same path that Houston and Portland just did? Blow this up and build it the right way.

 

[mongoose01]

I think they trade Donovan. You move all his buddies and then say “we open to trading him for the right price”. Guy was already kinda iffy on staying here… this would obviously piss him off. Wendy’s prophesy is not yet fully fulfilled,

This… also why would he not be involved whatsoever in the offseason. He didn’t give any opinion on the ****** jerseys. He wasn’t part of the reveal. He didn’t give input on the new coach at least publicly. He’s already out.
If I were the Jazz I would still want to acquire a young potential all star like Ayton because of the all star game in SLC, but blowing it up with a young new coach is the way to go. Mitchell has got to be on the way out. He’s not a buildable piece, because he has already ran it’s course and checked out.


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[sip]

Well put.

And I want nothing to do with teaming Ayton up with Spida. Let’s rip the bandaid off and start the rebuild. Not prolong mediocrity with a severely flawed roster

I don't see how Ayton is a flawed center. He is more than capable of doing everything. He is a solid defender and rebounder. Offensively he finishes strong around the rim and is capable of stepping out and hitting an outside shot. He is just a solid all around center. I think in the right situation where he is more of a focus offensively he can be 24pt, 12rb, 2 blk a game center. To me he is the ideal pairing with Mitchell and I would love to give it a shot. If it doesn't work out then we blow it up during the season or next offseason.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This… also why would he not be involved whatsoever in the offseason. He didn’t give any opinion on the ****** jerseys. He wasn’t part of the reveal. He didn’t give input on the new coach at least publicly. He’s already out.
If I were the Jazz I would still want to acquire a young potential all star like Ayton because of the all star game in SLC, but blowing it up with a young new coach is the way to go. Mitchell has got to be on the way out. He’s not a buildable piece, because he has already ran it’s course and checked out.


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Last time we heard from him he was shocked and unnerved.

 

[The Thriller]

I don't see how Ayton is a flawed center. He is more than capable of doing everything. He is a solid defender and rebounder. Offensively he finishes strong around the rim and is capable of stepping out and hitting an outside shot. He is just a solid all around center.

I said flawed roster, not center. Reread my post.