Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Handlogten's Heros]

Or Brandon Ingram, Josh Hart, #4 pick, and Lonzo over AD.
Or Kyle Kuzma, KCP, #22 pick over Westbrook.

that's exactly it... I don't think Rob knows what he is doing. He waiting for one super move that gets him a title. Tough to say the AD deal hasn't worked but there are more picks in that deal yet to convey.

Its just not how roster building works... you have to make a few good deals when you have as many roster holes as they do... and plugging those holes will have a huge impact when you already have Bron and AD.

 

[YoungJefe]

that's exactly it... I don't think Rob knows what he is doing. He waiting for one super move that gets him a title. Tough to say the AD deal hasn't worked but there are more picks in that deal yet to convey.

Its just not how roster building works... you have to make a few good deals when you have as many roster holes as they do... and plugging those holes will have a huge impact when you already have Bron and AD.

How are the Lakers going to make a super move though with limited draft assets, young talent, and cap flexibility?

 

[YoungJefe]

We tend to think about what our players can do for the team. We want to maximize the team... but for Collin if he proves he is a starter quality guy and then you move him to the bench how happy is he going to be long term. We may not care but he will... starting or coming off the bench changes how a player is viewed and valued. Its hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Not sure what he would do about it... we have a long term deal and he will likely still perform but his ego would likely need some massaging. Like after the year JC has had do we think he'd accept a bench role for us next year? He might take that somewhere else but there is an real ego hit... does he turn into a tyrant? Probably not... could we have a John Collins type general unhappiness? That's the downside risk... it might be present already but making him a starter now might speed up that confrontation.

I don't think Collin is going to be significantly different/better as a starter vs a bench player than he has been this season or than what he was in Cleveland. He's not a PG so it makes it difficult to start him because he has to be paired with a big guard.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How are the Lakers going to make a super move though with limited draft assets, young talent, and cap flexibility?

I know... that is what I am saying... they are being dumbasses. I think they are either stupid or they are lying and will trade Bron and AD to rebuild.

 

[framer]

thats a pretty good point there. $7M QO would be accepted before 3/12 or 4/20 most likely.

QO is a one year guarantee. Don't insult him and give him a multiyear contract and I think he bites. 3/12 is pretty damn insulting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

QO is a one year guarantee. Don't insult him and give him a multiyear contract and I think he bites. 3/12 is pretty damn insulting.

3/12 is not insulting at all. If he takes the QO he's at risk of being buried on a bench behind a bunch of rookie contract players (already a struggle for him to get minutes and that's with roster deadweights like Udoka/Bolmaro existing). He's going to want to sign a multi-year deal. Make it a 3/12 with a player option for the 3rd year so he can rake in the bigger TV deal money.

 

[Jaanipoeg]

How highly would you all rate Cam Johnson in the off-season? I think 3&D stretch-4 style could pair really well aside Lauri/Kessler in the frontcourt and he has proven to be a winning player. He will already be 27 when he comes off his rookie deal this season as a RFA.

Suns offered him $72/4 which he turned down. New ownership supposedly wants to win, but the team is definitely at a unique point as CP3 ages and they've had friction with Ayton/Crowder (the jazz are proof that having high expectations and then flaming out in the playoffs can be disastrous). They have Booker, Ayton, Bridges on massive contacts already. IDK, if we maintain some contacts, I would definitely be interested in a potential sign and trade where we pay him $22-24 per over four with the raising cap or sign him outright if it clear enough cap.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How highly would you all rate Cam Johnson in the off-season? I think 3&D stretch-4 style could pair really well aside Lauri/Kessler in the frontcourt and he has proven to be a winning player. He will already be 27 when he comes off his rookie deal this season as a RFA.

Suns offered him $72/4 which he turned down. New ownership supposedly wants to win, but the team is definitely at a unique point as CP3 ages and they've had friction with Ayton/Crowder (the jazz are proof that having high expectations and then flaming out in the playoffs can be disastrous). They have Booker, Ayton, Bridges on massive contacts already. IDK, if we maintain some contacts, I would definitely be interested in a potential sign and trade where we pay him $22-24 per over four with the raising cap or sign him outright if it clear enough cap.

I'd definitely give him more than 72/4.

 

[framer]

We tend to think about what our players can do for the team. We want to maximize the team... but for Collin if he proves he is a starter quality guy and then you move him to the bench how happy is he going to be long term. We may not care but he will... starting or coming off the bench changes how a player is viewed and valued. Its hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Not sure what he would do about it... we have a long term deal and he will likely still perform but his ego would likely need some massaging. Like after the year JC has had do we think he'd accept a bench role for us next year? He might take that somewhere else but there is an real ego hit... does he turn into a tyrant? Probably not... could we have a John Collins type general unhappiness? That's the downside risk... it might be present already but making him a starter now might speed up that confrontation.

If he plays well enough to make a case as a starting PG then you move him for assets if you get someone better. The assets you get for a starting level PG is much better than you get for a scoring specialist off the bench. It isn't rocket science.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Grant Williams is a guy I would target as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How highly would you all rate Cam Johnson in the off-season? I think 3&D stretch-4 style could pair really well aside Lauri/Kessler in the frontcourt and he has proven to be a winning player. He will already be 27 when he comes off his rookie deal this season as a RFA.

Suns offered him $72/4 which he turned down. New ownership supposedly wants to win, but the team is definitely at a unique point as CP3 ages and they've had friction with Ayton/Crowder (the jazz are proof that having high expectations and then flaming out in the playoffs can be disastrous). They have Booker, Ayton, Bridges on massive contacts already. IDK, if we maintain some contacts, I would definitely be interested in a potential sign and trade where we pay him $22-24 per over four with the raising cap or sign him outright if it clear enough cap.

I think he gets Deandre Hunter level money... like 4/90M.

 

[KqWIN]

We tend to think about what our players can do for the team. We want to maximize the team... but for Collin if he proves he is a starter quality guy and then you move him to the bench how happy is he going to be long term. We may not care but he will... starting or coming off the bench changes how a player is viewed and valued. Its hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Not sure what he would do about it... we have a long term deal and he will likely still perform but his ego would likely need some massaging. Like after the year JC has had do we think he'd accept a bench role for us next year? He might take that somewhere else but there is an real ego hit... does he turn into a tyrant? Probably not... could we have a John Collins type general unhappiness? That's the downside risk... it might be present already but making him a starter now might speed up that confrontation.

I just don't believe you make decisions out of fear that a player might improve himself and view himself as that improved player. On a scale of 1-10, the fear of negative impacts coming from Collin Sexton starting is about a 1.2. If you are in so much fear of Sexton not starting, you can just not start him.

 

[KqWIN]

If he plays well enough to make a case as a starting PG then you move him for assets if you get someone better. The assets you get for a starting level PG is much better than you get for a scoring specialist off the bench. It isn't rocket science.

Exactly, since when are we afraid to trade players because his younger replacement might prove to be better? One of the reasons to trade Conley is to see if Sexton is actually starter quality. It's good for the franchise if Sexton improves his stock, not something to be afraid of lol.

 

[fishonjazz]

Because if the goal is for him to be this super 6th man type, you want him growing into that role and accepting it. If you give him the starter reigns only to take them away, that could be problematic.

Fair point.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If he plays well enough to make a case as a starting PG then you move him for assets if you get someone better. The assets you get for a starting level PG is much better than you get for a scoring specialist off the bench. It isn't rocket science.

There are ways around it for sure... but even if he shows promise it doesn't mean there will be a good value trade or a trade partner. He may be a good soldier though... I'm simply saying there are things to consider here.

 

[infection]

I know... that is what I am saying... they are being dumbasses. I think they are either stupid or they are lying and will trade Bron and AD to rebuild.

What kind of a return do you think LeBron could get?

 

[YoungJefe]

I know... that is what I am saying... they are being dumbasses. I think they are either stupid or they are lying and will trade Bron and AD to rebuild.

There have been rumblings that NBA teams are preparing for LeBron to force his way out this summer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exactly, since when are we afraid to trade players because his younger replacement might prove to be better? One of the reasons to trade Conley is to see if Sexton is actually starter quality. It's good for the franchise if Sexton improves his stock, not something to be afraid of lol.

I don't think that is the thing to be afraid of... I think the situation where he plays "meh" as a starter but he thinks he was awesome is the issue. We hear guys all the time declare they are a starter in the league or an all-star in the league, etc. etc. The stuff matters and there may be a (potentially big) difference between what the coaching staff and FO think he is providing and what he thinks he is providing.

Like why is Rudy Gay playing right now? It's because he is owed 6M+ this year and next and will bitch to high heaven if he isn't in the rotation. May be in a situation where Collin is unhappy with the bench role and on a deal that isn't valued around the league and the situation hurts the team for a while.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What kind of a return do you think LeBron could get?

No idea... his market would be limited because he is a huge personality so you better move him somewhere he wants to be.

 

[fishonjazz]

What if Sexton started and was really good… *gasp* we can’t have that he has to be the 6th man.

I remember prior to this season everyone thought clarkson could only be a sixth man. Also remember people (myself included) saying clarkson would start and be the tank commander taking a to a near league worst record with his inefficient chucking.
Instead i hear talk of him being an all star now and a piece we should re-sign and him having the best year of his career.

Also, if we trade conley and that is the sole reason Sexton starts then would that really feel like a promotion to him? Also if we were terrible with him as the starting point guard then maybe he would understand being moved back to the bench. Especially if his individual game suffered.

Could also be the case that we are worse with him starting in regards to assists and "running the offense" but we get more fast break points, more points from the line, more deflections etc.

Some teams are really good without having a big time assist dude and floor general because they have multiple guys who can get their own buckets efficiently. Do the bucks or celtics or clippers have wonderful floor generals for example? Pelicans? grizzlies? (I honestly dont know as I dont follow many teams besides the jazz)

If Sexton continues, and even improves on, getting his own buckets efficiently and clarkson does too and lauri does too (he is extremely easy to set up as he can score from anywhere in any way. Curls, three ball, mid range, post up, rim runs, transition, iso, etc. Not hard to get an offensive player as good as him buckets) then maybe we can be one of the good teams who lack the "floor general assist guy"