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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Elizah Huge said:
Outside of assists and playmaking what exactly is Conley better at than Sexton? Sexton is better at almost every other facet of the game. Their defense is a wash to me but Conley could be given a slight nod there.
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You know, playmaking and assisting your teammates is important for a PG, right?. Besides that, Conley just simply make very advanced reads, make the life easier for bigs and is able to run the offense properly with very low TOs. Conley's defense has declined a lot and is a wash indeed. Outside shooting is very good from both. Conley floater has become unreliable, although he seems to be hitting it better.
 
Bodhi said:
You take that Indiana trade in a sec but they are not doing that.
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If you can get the Indiana pick quickly, I would flip it along with the BKN pick into a trade with the Clippers.
Clippers get:
2023 Cavs pick via Indiana
2023 BKN pick
Mike Conley

Jazz get:
2023 Clippers unprotected pick
I don't care who the Clippers send back. They have the hardest schedule and may not make the playin.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The short leash is what makes him so efficient. It's really his only saving grace offensively. He can get a bucket. Does it help the team all that much? I would say it has this season, because he has been extremely good in that scoring efficiency department, but I dont see much room for growth from Sexton (unless he takes a sizeable uptick in 3pt volume, but that just isnt his game and his form doesnt really allow for it). This is his peak. You make him the lead guard and his efficiency will go down and his lack of making others better will still stick out like a sore thumb. The juxtaposition between him and Conley really is a joy to watch, makes you appreciate Conley sooooooo much more. Hardy deserves COTY for the job he has done with Sexton tbh, especially if Ainge is able to parlay that into serious assets.

I mean, you really care about RAPTOR stats dont you? Because it was all the rage in the Bones defense discussion. Conley is 2x the player Sexton is according to RAPTOR, and that's with Conley going through long spurts of being injury riddled and just generally being a very mediocre scoring efficiency player.

The fact that Sexton is so efficient offensively from an individual standpoint, and yet he is barely an offensive + to the team should tell you all you need to know. Hopefully the Jazz can sell high on his basic stats looking so good to the layman eye.
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Hes a plus on offense for a very good offense... so yeah I'd say that is good and meaningful. Conley is more of a binding player in that he helps things mix and work well, but there are times we absolutely have needed Collin's ability to penetrate and collapse the defense. Its led to efficient scoring on his part or kickouts to shooters. I get its basic stuff and not beautiful basketball... sometime the blunt object is more effective.

He makes mistakes... its okay. Coach rides him... its okay. Some players shut down with criticism... the fact that coach knows he can get into him is not a big negative imo. Its actually a sign that Hardy knows he can handle it and improve.
 
whatthe said:
If you can get the Indiana pick quickly, I would flip it along with the BKN pick into a trade with the Clippers.
Clippers get:
2023 Cavs pick via Indiana
2023 BKN pick
Mike Conley

Jazz get:
2023 Clippers unprotected pick
I don't care who the Clippers send back. They have the hardest schedule and may not make the playin.
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I think it would still have to be a swap because of the swap rights OKC has and protections on the Boston pick (I assume there are some). It would not be hard to write that swap though.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Hes a plus on offense for a very good offense... so yeah I'd say that is good and meaningful. Conley is more of a binding player in that he helps things mix and work well, but there are times we absolutely have needed Collin's ability to penetrate and collapse the defense. Its led to efficient scoring on his part or kickouts to shooters. I get its basic stuff and not beautiful basketball... sometime the blunt object is more effective.

He makes mistakes... its okay. Coach rides him... its okay. Some players shut down with criticism... the fact that coach knows he can get into him is not a big negative imo. Its actually a sign that Hardy knows he can handle it and improve.
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It'd be something if Sexton was a good drive/kick player, but he isnt. I would say THT makes much better drive/kick reads despite having 1/10th the scoring talent.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I also don’t know what’s wrong with using stats and advanced stats to back up what you see on the floor.
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Confirmation bias. It is both an argument for and against using stats. Hell you can use stats to show anything you want, or ignore them and call them stupid. 62.5% of all stats are made up on the spot anyway.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I think it would still have to be a swap because of the swap rights OKC has and protections on the Boston pick (I assume there are some). It would not be hard to write that swap though.
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Maybe a two picks for one pick swap...is that possible?
Anyway, if it is possible then that kind of scenario could lead to having three picks in the teens in a deep draft. Also there is a small chance you could win one these three of these picks. Well, the Clips would likely put protections on that pick swap but who knows.
 
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Elizah Huge said:
Outside of assists and playmaking what exactly is Conley better at than Sexton? Sexton is better at almost every other facet of the game. Their defense is a wash to me but Conley could be given a slight nod there.
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I think people just seem to think that having a "floor general" point guard who is pass first is super critical. And it was a long time ago. Todays game has quite a few score first point guards starting for very very good teams. Ja morant is more of a scorer than a passer (good passer too though), Kyrie irving is more of a scorer than a passer (he averages 5.1 assists per game). Jamaal Murray averages 5.7 assists per game and is score first. Fox averages 6.1 assists per game is a score first guy. Clippers have terrance mann listed as starting point guard and averaging 2.1 assists though Im guessing that is due to injury. Reggie jackson is probably their normal point guard and averages 3.6 points per game.
I think sexton could average 5-7 assists per game if he got the minutes. NAW and THT as well.
Point being that many teams are successful without a true floor general pass first point guard.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I also don’t know what’s wrong with using stats and advanced stats to back up what you see on the floor.
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Sure, but when someone uses those same stats you built your last case on, you probably shouldnt bury your head in the sand when it doesnt jive with your next thing, especially when offensive impact advanced stats are much more quantifiable than defensive impact.
 
fishonjazz said:
I think people just seem to think that having a "floor general" point guard who is pass first is super critical. And it was a long time ago. Todays game has quite a few score first point guards starting for very very good teams. Ja morant is more of a scorer than a passer (good passer too though), Kyrie irving is more of a scorer than a passer (he averages 5.1 assists per game). Jamaal Murray averages 5.7 assists per game and is score first. Fox averages 6.1 assists per game is a score first guy. Clippers have terrance mann listed as starting point guard and averaging 2.1 assists though Im guessing that is due to injury. Reggie jackson is probably their normal point guard and averages 3.6 points per game.
I think sexton could average 5-7 assists per game if he got the minutes. NAW and THT as well.
Point being that many teams are successful without a true floor general pass first point guard.
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This is a good post. People are very stuck on the traditional PG of old. Yeah, Sexton isn’t that. What he is though is an uber efficient scorer who can still set up his teammates.
 
I’m still quietly holding out hope that there’s a Lakers/Jazz trade that moves Conley, Clarkson and Olynyk for Westbrook (buyout), Troy Brown, Max Christie and some pick swaps that involve the 76ers/Nets pick this year and then the Jazz/Cavs/Wolves picks at some point down the road. Lakers actually save $1 million in salary and more in luxury tax with that deal, plus they can help appease LeBron for the rest of this season. I think those three guys would help them immensely and not completely deplete their assets for a future deal they might want to make.

Jazz move some vets and free up cap space to become a trade destination for someone looking to dump salary pre-draft. See if an opportunity to snag a solid player or asset presents itself. If not, become a buyer in free agency.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I would say overall the Jazz offense helps Sexton more than Sexton helps the Jazz offense.
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There are times where the offense is so stagnant and all we need is someone to put their head down and get to the rim. Sexton is exactly what we need a lot of the time. I think every player has benefited from the Jazz offense this year.
 
latin jazz said:
You know, playmaking and assisting your teammates is important for a PG, right?
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Not as important as you might think in todays nba. See my previous post. NBA is different today than it was back in the day. Not many pure pass first point guards anymore. Still a good thing to have but not super necessary anymore.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Confirmation bias. It is both an argument for and against using stats. Hell you can use stats to show anything you want, or ignore them and call them stupid. 62.5% of all stats are made up on the spot anyway.
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I’d rather have stats back up what I see rather than dismissing stats because it doesn’t match what I see.
 
fishonjazz said:
I think people just seem to think that having a "floor general" point guard who is pass first is super critical. And it was a long time ago. Todays game has quite a few score first point guards starting for very very good teams. Ja morant is more of a scorer than a passer (good passer too though), Kyrie irving is more of a scorer than a passer (he averages 5.1 assists per game). Jamaal Murray averages 5.7 assists per game and is score first. Fox averages 6.1 assists per game is a score first guy. Clippers have terrance mann listed as starting point guard and averaging 2.1 assists though Im guessing that is due to injury. Reggie jackson is probably their normal point guard and averages 3.6 points per game.
I think sexton could average 5-7 assists per game if he got the minutes. NAW and THT as well.
Point being that many teams are successful without a true floor general pass first point guard.
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It's not a black/white thing. This isnt the 90's. There really arent any "true" PG's left. You have to be a scoring threat, but you have to be a scoring threat who can equally see passing opportunities and scoring opportunities, and knows when to be on/off the ball w/ quick decisions, basically a 2nd coach on the floor. That is the essence of what being a PG is. Sexton is closer to Carmelo Anthony than he is Mike Conley.

And yes Fish, when you are a team with a playmaking superstar (or multiple) the need for a PG is less so. But guess what? The Clippers are in the trade rumors looking for *GASP*..... a PG. And until the Jazz land a self-creation super-star, they will desperately need some kind of higher level playmaking PG who can both score himself and set-up the team.
 
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