These numbers mean very little because they are playing with different players, and it also does not include defense. When Sexton was the starter, the starting lineup played much better than they did with Conley. It's a SSS, but it was not close. They are opposite players with different strengths. There's not much evidence to say that we are better with on or the other.
Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
- Start date
These numbers mean very little because they are playing with different players, and it also does not include defense. When Sexton was the starter, the starting lineup played much better than they did with Conley. It's a SSS, but it was not close. They are opposite players with different strengths. There's not much evidence to say that we are better with on or the other.
You have to take into account the role that each player plays. During Conleys best years he was only averaging about 6 assists a game. Also those cavs teams had almost no talent so there weren't exactly a lot of shot makers for Sexton to create for. This year when he started at pg he played really well and averaged around 6 assists a game.
17.5 PPG
It’s wild to me that people are still underrating Sexton. He’s in literally almost all of our best 3-man and 4-man lineups.
He is good. Not 36M good, but very good defense and decent rebounding and playmaking.
I mean he is a 27 minute starter in a top tier team.
IMO, the two best data approaches we have are:
1) The difference in starting lineup performance with Sexton/Conley. This is massively in Sexton's favor, but it is a SSS so it's not perfect. In 303 minutes, the initial Jazz starting lineup was -1.72 per100 in 303 minutes. With Sexton and the same lineup, they were +14.5 per100 in 133 minutes
2) A pure on/off metric that adjust for teammate an opponent. These are noisy, but a good proxy for how a team performs plays relative to the teammates and opponents they share the floor with.
RAPTOR on/off:
Conley -0.6
Sexton -0.4
RAPM:
Conley +0.31
Sexton +0.01
There is no "perfect" way to do this. My take on this is that there really is not much of a drop off, with more evidence to say that there is an increase, when Sexton replaces Conley despite them being drastically different types of players. Should be noted that I don't think either player is that amazing and probably not starter level, which the numbers would echo as well.
YoungJefe
Well-Known Member
He's also a head case and similar to Rudy in that you have to use very specific lineups around him for it to work because he's so limited offensively.
I think the so called negative culture impact is overblown because he is such a good defensive player. If he didn't play defense then there would be an issue but defense is about effort and I think teammates respect how hard he works on that end of the court because so many players highly paid players in this league don't put in that effort. I still think he can have a Draymond Green type of impact and is well worth the risk for us. I also love the fact that he doesn't take touches away from Lauri and has the ability to create more clean looks for Lauri.
Just think about when you trade for Luka, being able to give Dallas back its own future pick would be pretty valuable.
He is so much more versatile on both ends of the court than Rudy though. He can step out and guard elite perimeter players and offensively he can at least attack the basket off the dribble and is a really good passer. Right now you probably wouldn't want to give a bunch of minutes with Kessler but as the backup 5 paired with Lauri and shooters he would be extremely effective.
Both true.
YoungJefe
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's that overblown personally, he had issues with all of his teammates in Philly and now they're saying he's having issues in Brooklyn as well. Defense is about effort but he's an elite defender because he's basically prime LeBron, dude is a freak. The main difference between him and Draymond is that Draymond plays with grit, fire, and emotion. He has intangibles that you cannot teach and does all of the little things. Ben is softer than charmin and you literally couldn't play him with Kessler for extended minutes.
Trading Vando for 2nd rd picks and a TPE makes zero sense. If we aren't getting a late 1st then I don't see the point.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
Contributor
2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
2025 Award Winner
Oh you were just saying that conley is a better passer than sexton. I agree.
Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app