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Trump bars people from 7 countries entering the US

Siro said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-syrian-refugees.html

Affects people from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia and Yemen.

I understand, although disagree, with all but Iran. Why is Iran banned? We still playing enemies with Iran for no discernible reason? Sad.
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Not sure why you feel this way. Some say Iran is the major State sponsor of terrorism. We have a huge contingent of Iranian secret police in the USA who are tracking Iranian citizens and whatnot, who knows what else they do. Pretty sure this is a bad pick for a nation to trust.
 
ONE LOVE said:
Interested to hear your take on this issue, Fish, I often look to you as a barometer for issues concerning Americans...


Are you for it? Against it? Indifferent?
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If I'm being honest (and I think it makes me sound racist/insensitive etc) I would actually prefer people to stop coming to America. I like having more space rather than less so I prefer less people.
And it seems like, though usually not their faults, often when people come to this country they end up end poor areas and seem to make things worse a lot of the time.

I'm no expert on this topic, in fact I know very little about statistics and what not and I'm probably very ignorant. But what i see where I live is that where there is a higher population of immigrants (where I live it's mostly mexicans) there is usually more spray painting of gang related stuff, more crime, more drugs etc etc. Usually people will move to neighborhoods that have less mexicans living there if they can. This includes mexicans. Even they typically move away from areas with high Mexican populations if they can afford to. (I can't afford to move to those places so my property gets vandalized, I hear the occasional gunshot, and see a lot of gang and drug activity)

I also kind of agree with some of what hack has said about being worried about people from the middle east bringing their culture to the USA and it not meshing well here.

So in theory I guess I surprisingly kind of agree with it. Problem is that it will only make things worse imo. Create more divide, more racism, more anger, more anti American sentiment etc.

Plus Trump is an idiot.
 
fishonjazz said:
If I'm being honest (and I think it makes me sound racist/insensitive etc) I would actually prefer people to stop coming to America. I like having more space rather than less so I prefer less people.
And it seems like, though usually not their faults, often when people come to this country they end up end poor areas and seem to make things worse a lot of the time.

I'm no expert on this topic, in fact I know very little about statistics and what not and I'm probably very ignorant. But what i see where I live is that where there is a higher population of immigrants (where I live it's mostly mexicans) there is usually more spray painting of gang related stuff, more crime, more drugs etc etc. Usually people will move to neighborhoods that have less mexicans living there if they can. This includes mexicans. Even they typically move away from areas with high Mexican populations if they can afford to. (I can't afford to move to those places so my property gets vandalized, I hear the occasional gunshot, and see a lot of gang and drug activity)

I also kind of agree with some of what hack has said about being worried about people from the middle east bringing their culture to the USA and it not meshing well here.

So in theory I guess I surprisingly kind of agree with it. Problem is that it will only make things worse imo. Create more divide, more racism, more anger, more anti American sentiment etc.

Plus Trump is an idiot.
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Thanks Fish, I agree with all of that. I'd imagine most Americans who are not as animated/outspoken about this also feel this way.
 
I can understand the 90 day ban on people from those countries coming in. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. But not letting the people who have gone through the legalities of getting a visa, getting a green card, etc, that I don't get. That's just plain wrong, stupid, and disheartening.

As for the racism slant, if it wasn't racist when Obama initiated a similar (although much less severe) act on those same countries back in 11 (I think), then I don't see how it's racist now.
 
JustTheTip said:
I can understand the 90 day ban on people from those countries coming in. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. But not letting the people who have gone through the legalities of getting a visa, getting a green card, etc, that I don't get. That's just plain wrong, stupid, and disheartening.

As for the racism slant, if it wasn't racist when Obama initiated a similar (although much less severe) act on those same countries back in 11 (I think), then I don't see how it's racist now.
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I just read on yahoo news that they backed off the ban for anyone with a green card.
 
MVP said:
It's part of your history. You can't just ignore it because you were not alive at that time. Same like Germans can't ignore Hitler or Russians can't ignore Lenin and Stalin.
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Who the **** is ignoring it you mental midget? They have absolutely zero to do with the topic at hand and I therefore had no reason to mention them.

Are you that dense?
 
dalamon said:
second time you've mentioned economic drag-- that's a strong statement. Provide some scientific, intelligent justification behind this claim. Fox News talking points might convince ur (perhaps bigoted) peers but they're not convincing the rest of us.
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Come on dalamon, you are smarter than that. Are you so naive to believe that 36.000 Syrian refugees whom Trudeaus government brought to Canada cost us nothing? Maybe when you will have a family to take care of and kids to raise you will understand it better without articles or numbers but here, just read this.

It's about 1 billion from tax payers pocket in Canada.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/syrian-refugees-federal-budget-2016_n_9525346.html

Lets look at UK... hm, its worse... 1.7bil

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-slams-ministers-making-no-estimate-cost.html

How about USA - 2.3 bil

https://www.wnd.com/2015/11/taxpayer-bill-to-resettle-35000-mideast-refugees-2-3-billion/

Still want to argue about economic drag? Still waiting on your opinion on oppressive laws towards women in one of the best places to visit....
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Who the **** is ignoring it you mental midget? They have absolutely zero to do with the topic at hand and I therefore had no reason to mention them.

Are you that dense?
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Why are you pointing to today then? Why do you make today any worse than anything else happened in America before? Because saying you are ashamed today sounds like there was nothing to be ashamed before.
Should have just said I am ashamed to be American.
 
MVP said:
Come on dalamon, you are smarter than that. Are you so naive to believe that 36.000 Syrian refugees whom Trudeaus government brought to Canada cost us nothing? Maybe when you will have a family to take care of and kids to raise you will understand it better without articles or numbers but here, just read this.

It's about 1 billion from tax payers pocket in Canada.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03/22/syrian-refugees-federal-budget-2016_n_9525346.html

Lets look at UK... hm, its worse... 1.7bil

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-slams-ministers-making-no-estimate-cost.html

How about USA - 2.3 bil

https://www.wnd.com/2015/11/taxpayer-bill-to-resettle-35000-mideast-refugees-2-3-billion/

Still want to argue about economic drag? Still waiting on your opinion on oppressive laws towards women in one of the best places to visit....
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I asked you for scientific, intelligent justification. You're a vet & very clearly not an economist, so stop pretending to be one. Up front investments in educational programs for refugees represent only a slice of the overall impact of refugees on a nation's economy. How else do you think Germany took in one million?


From the Economist:

the evidence on the likely fiscal impact of refugees is murkier, as adding up the tax paid and benefits received by any individual or group is tricky. Those who try tend to find only small differences between immigrants and natives. The OECD, a club of mostly rich countries, assessed the effect of immigrants on its members’ finances in 2007-09. It found they made a net fiscal contribution of around 0.35% of GDP on average, with relatively little variation from country to country.
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Don't waste my time with your simplistic posts. Find me links to academic papers describing the impact of refugees on economies, or go find some other moron that you might have a hope in convincing
 
dalamon said:
I asked you for scientific, intelligent justification. You're a vet & very clearly not an economist, so stop pretending to be one. Up front investments in educational programs for refugees represent only a slice of the overall impact of refugees on a nation's economy. How else do you think Germany took in one million?


From the Economist:



Don't waste my time with your simplistic posts. Find me links to academic papers describing the impact of refugees on economies, or go find some other moron that you might have a hope in convincing
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...but his kids, brough, have opened up a world you couldn't understand with your fancy articles.

...and his direct experience with late-Soviet regimes, brough, make him untouchable in the realm of political theory etc.
 
fishonjazz said:
If I'm being honest (and I think it makes me sound racist/insensitive etc) I would actually prefer people to stop coming to America. I like having more space rather than less so I prefer less people.
And it seems like, though usually not their faults, often when people come to this country they end up end poor areas and seem to make things worse a lot of the time.

I'm no expert on this topic, in fact I know very little about statistics and what not and I'm probably very ignorant. But what i see where I live is that where there is a higher population of immigrants (where I live it's mostly mexicans) there is usually more spray painting of gang related stuff, more crime, more drugs etc etc. Usually people will move to neighborhoods that have less mexicans living there if they can. This includes mexicans. Even they typically move away from areas with high Mexican populations if they can afford to. (I can't afford to move to those places so my property gets vandalized, I hear the occasional gunshot, and see a lot of gang and drug activity)

I also kind of agree with some of what hack has said about being worried about people from the middle east bringing their culture to the USA and it not meshing well here.

So in theory I guess I surprisingly kind of agree with it. Problem is that it will only make things worse imo. Create more divide, more racism, more anger, more anti American sentiment etc.

Plus Trump is an idiot.
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Man, a lot of your assumptions are way off. Immigrants do a lot of great things for this country and to stop that flow of talent in...It would be like the Lakers saying they won't sign anymore Free Agents anymore.

Not the best idea.
 
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