Trump biggest mass-murderer ever?

[str8line]

Without Trumptards would this have happened? Is the Great Orange One up there with Stalin? Factoring in years of life missed and the rumored 20 million purged under Stalin he might still be ahead but Trump made dying in his name beautiful goddammit. MAGA!

US life expectancy continues historic decline with another drop in 2021, study finds | CNN

Life expectancy in the United States took another hit in 2021, furthering a dramatic decline from 2020 that was the largest since World War II, according to a new report.

www.cnn.com

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Archie Moses]

I'm glad I never rode with str8line.

Lol

 

[Avery]

Understood, but I fail to see why we are discussing this and not more important events in human history such as the Will Smith slap.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Understood, but I fail to see why we are discussing this and not more important events in human history such as the Will Smith slap.

Because Trump is the bigger mass-murderer. Will Smith is 6'2" while Trump is 6'3". At least both are a lot taller than tiny non-American mass-murderers like Hitler (5'8"), Chairman Mao (5'9"), and Joseph Stalin (5'5").

 

[Gameface]

Without Trumptards would this have happened? Is the Great Orange One up there with Stalin? Factoring in years of life missed and the rumored 20 million purged under Stalin he might still be ahead but Trump made dying in his name beautiful goddammit. MAGA!

US life expectancy continues historic decline with another drop in 2021, study finds | CNN

Life expectancy in the United States took another hit in 2021, furthering a dramatic decline from 2020 that was the largest since World War II, according to a new report.

www.cnn.com

Sent from my SM-G986U using JazzFanz mobile app

You can't lay all the people who died from COVID at the feet of Trump. No western European country was able to effectively control the disease. The AU and China (not sure about NZ) I think get the award for major nations who controlled COVID the most, but they took measures that would not have been possible in the U.S.. There wasn't some obvious option available that would have prevented the majority of those deaths.

 

[LogGrad98]

You can't lay all the people who died from COVID at the feet of Trump. No western European country was able to effectively control the disease. The AU and China (not sure about NZ) I think get the award for major nations who controlled COVID the most, but they took measures that would not have been possible in the U.S.. There wasn't some obvious option available that would have prevented the majority of those deaths.

Agreed. A case could be made, however, that his insistence on this being a democrat hoax at the beginning and playing down the severity for literally months delayed funding and action on the vaccine and on proper quarantine methods which caused unnecessary loss of life. Most of the time him playing in his fantasy world is just his own little psychosis, irritating and infuriating but generally harmless. In this instance, his psychosis caused actual deaths. No way to know how many but still caused deaths nonetheless.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Agreed. A case could be made, however, that his insistence on this being a democrat hoax at the beginning and playing down the severity for literally months delayed funding and action on the vaccine

That never happened. In reality we had a vaccine super early. We had the Moderna vaccine formulated by Febuary 24, 2020. That is about 35 days after the first American tested positive for COVID-19. Trump raged publicly at the FDA dragging their feet and inserting new equity requirements that had never been seen before on approving it. There were even allegations the vaccine approvals were being delayed until after the election because it was feared that Trump would ride credit for them to reelection. I'm not saying everything Trump said or did was helpful, but when it came to vaccine development Trump was definitely not slowing anything down.

 

[One Brow]

Agreed. A case could be made, however, that his insistence on this being a democrat hoax at the beginning and playing down the severity for literally months delayed funding and action on the vaccine and on proper quarantine methods which caused unnecessary loss of life.

I disagree on the vaccine, our development of it was very fast indeed. I agree on proper quarantine methods, where Trump's down-playing gave impetus to the "let-'er-rip" supporters.

 

[LogGrad98]

That never happened. In reality we had a vaccine super early. We had the Moderna vaccine formulated by Febuary 24, 2020. That is about 35 days after the first American tested positive for COVID-19. Trump raged publicly at the FDA dragging their feet and inserting new equity requirements that had never been seen before on approving it. There were even allegations the vaccine approvals were being delayed until after the election because it was feared that Trump would ride credit for them to reelection. I'm not saying everything Trump said or did was helpful, but when it came to vaccine development Trump was definitely not slowing anything down.

ok

 

[LogGrad98]

I disagree on the vaccine, our development of it was very fast indeed. I agree on proper quarantine methods, where Trump's down-playing gave impetus to the "let-'er-rip" supporters.

Here is an example of delayed action on the vaccine.

Opinion | I saw how Trump didn't care about Covid deaths. That makes the transition dangerous.

The Trump administration has stopped all transition activities and funding, and that will slow — if not completely halt — vaccination efforts.

www.nbcnews.com

For a vaccine of this nature it was really fast, unheard of actually. But it could have been even a few months earlier in development and distribution and who knows many lives that represents.

 

[The Thriller]

I think it’s a double whammy.

First, Trump downplayed Covid when he was president. The “let er rip” and “Liberate Michigan” led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. His constant undermining of doctors and expertise hurt our society’s ability to mitigate this disaster.

Second, once the vaccines became widely available, he helped to undermined their effectiveness because he was no longer president. He wasn’t alone in this, the entire RW/Far LW propaganda apparatus Was anti vax. This led to thousands of unnecessary deaths.

America would’ve had thousands of deaths anyway due to this being a once in a lifetime pandemic. But I’m not sure if you’d find a worse former president to handle a pandemic. Obama, Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, etc would've all handled this much better.

 

[One Brow]

Here is an example of delayed action on the vaccine.

Opinion | I saw how Trump didn't care about Covid deaths. That makes the transition dangerous.

The Trump administration has stopped all transition activities and funding, and that will slow — if not completely halt — vaccination efforts.

www.nbcnews.com

That article talked about delayed transmission of information, which in that authors opinion might have had an impact on vaccine distribution. I don't see that it did, but I don't have access to that sort of logistics data. Were there any delays in actual vaccine distribution, and if so, where?

We don't need to exaggerate how terrible Trump was.

 

[One Brow]

I think it’s a double whammy.

First, Trump downplayed Covid when he was president. The “let er rip” and “Liberate Michigan” led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. His constant undermining of doctors and expertise hurt our society’s ability to mitigate this disaster.

I agree Trump played a part in this, as did other forces.

Second, once the vaccines became widely available, he helped to undermined their effectiveness because he was no longer president. He wasn’t alone in this, the entire RW/Far LW propaganda apparatus Was anti vax. This led to thousands of unnecessary deaths.

I did a search for Trump talking about vaccine effectiveness, and they all came back with Trump defending the vaccines. I get he's not always consistent, but could you link to a couple of times Trump himself downplayed the vaccines?

 

[gandalfe]

I wouldn't say he's a mass murderer, as that would imply intent. He just didn't care who died, as long as he, the spoiled rich fat man, looked tough.

 

[Gameface]

I agree Trump played a part in this, as did other forces.


I did a search for Trump talking about vaccine effectiveness, and they all came back with Trump defending the vaccines. I get he's not always consistent, but could you link to a couple of times Trump himself downplayed the vaccines?

I think the closest Trump has ever come to alienating his base is when he's advocated for vaccines. I think he got such a poor reception when he's done it that he backed off, but he advocated for the vaccine.

 

[The Thriller]

So first, @One Brow you made an excellent post.

I agree Trump played a part in this, as did other forces.

I agree that American narcissism, division, and distrust of expertise didn’t start with Trump either. I mean, I’m old enough to remember Birtherism, Palin, climate change denial, Creationism errr Intelligent Design, and I caught the tail end of AIDS, Stranger Danger, and DARE. I also know that the fringe left prior to just 5 mins ago, was the biggest proponent of anti-vax junk science.
However, Trump fueled this… Distrust of expertise and of modest Covid measures like nothing I’ve seen before. That election year could’ve been the year he brought the country somewhat together and easily won re-election. Truly, I think if he had struck a more Bush 2001-2002 tone he probably would’ve sailed to re-election and saved thousands of lives. But… the reason he has such a cult following is also the reason why he’s so divisive.

I did a search for Trump talking about vaccine effectiveness, and they all came back with Trump defending the vaccines. I get he's not always consistent, but could you link to a couple of times Trump himself downplayed the vaccines?

This was a good catch. I too searched for quotes and generally speaking, he’s been supportive of the vaccines. However, he often praises the vaccines, insults the Biden administration, diminishes Covid, and sows distrust in the election integrity of 2020 in the same sentence so I think the message gets muddled in his word salad. The message I got from this was, “Biden sucks and The vaccines are as phony as the 2020 election.”

the 45th president said in a statement released via his Save America PAC on Sunday. "He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."

Analysis: Donald Trump's latest dangerous vaccine pronouncement

The numbers are deeply worrisome.

www.cnn.com

Ultimately, the country would’ve been better served with a better president in 2020. Yes, I think he deserves some credit with the development of the vaccines. But that’s really offset by his “Liberate everything! Don’t let Covid dominate you” mantra that cost us thousands of lives in 2020 and set the conspiracy theories ablaze for after he lost. As if Covid was created to hurt his election and the vaccine was busted out just in time for Biden’s inauguration.

Had the vaccines developed been less effective, would we be praising Trump for helping to develop the vaccines? Perhaps, we should’ve done the best of both worlds? Meaning, invested in the vaccines as our only way out of Covid while also maintaining masking mandates and Covid payouts until the vaccines were widely available?

 

[The Thriller]

I think the closest Trump has ever come to alienating his base is when he's advocated for vaccines. I think he got such a poor reception when he's done it that he backed off, but he advocated for the vaccine.

True.

It also would’ve been good had he gotten vaccinated publicly in December 2020. Wasn’t it in December he and Melania got vaccinated in secret? I even remember seeing some folks on social media claim that was fake news. Photoshopped or something. Hmm

 

[One Brow]

The message I got from this was, “Biden sucks and The vaccines are as phony as the 2020 election.”

Analysis: Donald Trump's latest dangerous vaccine pronouncement

The numbers are deeply worrisome.

www.cnn.com

I read that as "Biden sucks, if he sucked less or if the media was better more people would take the vaccine". Trump speeches translate really poorly to the printed word, as he relies a great deal on changing volume, tone, and affect even in the middle of sentences. Usually he's a little less incoherent when you listen to him.

Had the vaccines developed been less effective, would we be praising Trump for helping to develop the vaccines?

I would. He's not a virologist nor a pharmaceutical, and in terms of getting the vaccine to the people, he did about everything that could be done.

Perhaps, we should’ve done the best of both worlds? Meaning, invested in the vaccines as our only way out of Covid while also maintaining masking mandates and Covid payouts until the vaccines were widely available?

I agree completely here.

 

[gandalfe]

I also know that the fringe left prior to just 5 mins ago, was the biggest proponent of anti-vax junk science.

I agree with most of your post, but need to comment on this.

While the modern anti-vax movement really started with the hippie granola educated left (the same people who complain if their eggs aren't organic and vegan), with a strong sense of "My Billy can't be autistic because of the genes we passed on, it must be something OUTSIDE that caused this." It had long since migrated to pretty much both sides of the divide, so both people who don't trust anything they can't watch grow and people who don't trust nuffim the gov'mint tells them.

Basically, from ignorance to ignorance.

I do grant a bit of a special dispensation to the people who are part of groups that our government actually HAS done experiments on without their knowledge and consent. They have good reason to be distrustful.

 

[The Thriller]

I think the closest Trump has ever come to alienating his base is when he's advocated for vaccines. I think he got such a poor reception when he's done it that he backed off, but he advocated for the vaccine.

He’s a mass murderer of facts. And procedures. Then again, McConnell shares in that…