Trumpcare makes things worse

[The Thriller]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...placement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Awesome article.

Basically, Trumpcare does nothing to address costs. In fact, it exacerbates them because it still requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and kids until 26 yet eliminates the individual mandate.

Trumpcare does nothing to make health care universal. In fact, fewer people will have insurance/coverage because instead it merely offers tax credits and freezes Medicaid expansion.

Trumpcare does nothing to address quality. Nothing to help encourage people to go into health care or offer incentives to those who have good health care records.

The only positive I see from this is that finally it might overburden our system so much that we finally scrap this for profit insurance nonsense and move towards a Bismarck system, where insurance still exists but it's nonprofit.

 

[DutchJazzer]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...placement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Awesome article.

Basically, Trumpcare does nothing to address costs. In fact, it exacerbates them because it still requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and kids until 26 yet eliminates the individual mandate.

Trumpcare does nothing to make health care universal. In fact, fewer people will have insurance/coverage because instead it merely offers tax credits and freezes Medicaid expansion.

Trumpcare does nothing to address quality. Nothing to help encourage people to go into health care or offer incentives to those who have good health care records.

The only positive I see from this is that finally it might overburden our system so much that we finally scrap this for profit insurance nonsense and move towards a HITLER system, where insurance still exists but it's nonprofit.

fixed it for you for historic accuracy!

Bismarck system only gave poor elderly and government workers healthcare.
Hitlers system gave to every human being

 

[DutchJazzer]

and yes i agree trump care sucks, still better than obummer care without the mandates and such!
because if you ar enot mandated to get insurance, you cna protest it by doing other stuff, like health saving account. and maybe(i don't know if true) you could set up a catastrophic health insurance company.

but i just had to point out your historical inaccuracy!

 

[infection]

I honestly don't know much about it but a few thoughts:

- Regarding kids staying on plans until 26, that needs to go.

- With some exception, pre-existing conditions need to go. I know that not a popular opinion, but on principle I couldn't support it. Instead, certain qualifying conditions (such as kids becoming adults with genetic disorders or cancers or adults with a genetic disorder) fall under a Medicare expansion such as is done with end-stage renal disease on dialysis.

- You mention offering incentives for people to go in to healthcare. What exactly did you have in mind?

 

[Stoked]

I honestly don't know much about it but a few thoughts:

- Regarding kids staying on plans until 26, that needs to go.

- With some exception, pre-existing conditions need to go. I know that not a popular opinion, but on principle I couldn't support it. Instead, certain qualifying conditions (such as kids becoming adults with genetic disorders or cancers or adults with a genetic disorder) fall under a Medicare expansion such as is done with end-stage renal disease on dialysis.

- You mention offering incentives for people to go in to healthcare. What exactly did you have in mind?

Why does this need to go? IMO, it does not go nearly far enough. If I am willing to pay and provided the needed info why can't I continue to cover my kid into their 40s?

 

[infection]

Why does this need to go? IMO, it does not go nearly far enough. If I am willing to pay and provided the needed info why can't I continue to cover my kid into their 40s?

I'm not arguing that it's not helpful for a lot of people. If companies want to do it I don't really care. I'm just against more rules and regulations, especially when they are unfunded.

 

[Stoked]

I'm not arguing that it's not helpful for a lot of people. If companies want to do it I don't really care. I'm just against more rules and regulations, especially when they are unfunded.

As long as it is not required but an available option I am all for it.

 

[Boris]

Why does this need to go? IMO, it does not go nearly far enough. If I am willing to pay and provided the needed info why can't I continue to cover my kid into their 40s?

You can not buy your adult children healthcare? That sounds dumb. What country do you live in?

 

[DutchJazzer]

Why does this need to go? IMO, it does not go nearly far enough. If I am willing to pay and provided the needed info why can't I continue to cover my kid into their 40s?

i agree in principle it needs to go. but if companies want to offer it ok, who am i to meddle into the business between a company and a liberated humanbeing

but imho seriously 26 year old are not children, we are keeping humans as children way to long, it is a way to control population.

at 18-21 years old you should man the f up and dont free load on your parents

 

[babe]

Overall, Obamacare was designed to fail in every respect. It's intent was and is single-payer (guvmint) Nirvana, but perhaps meant to be administered by some private cartel insurance "King of the Hill" with deep pockets to spread the good cheer around for those who help.

Overall, Trump started out thinking guv health authority might be a good thing if only he could manage it......

Conservatives with dreams of a Constitutional sort of limited guv don't believe it's Uncle Sam's business in any way, and please just stop fiddling with the free market. And yes, a lot of these folks are the sort to pass out some cash or food or shelter for someone in need.

reports from the Hill are disturbing..... looks like Obama lite.....

 

[green]

Conservatives with dreams of a Constitutional sort of limited guv don't believe it's Uncle Sam's business in any way, and please just stop fiddling with the free market. .

The biggest dupe in the history of mankind. "Free Markets will save all". The rallying cry of the Uber-rich who will end up owning it all and the poor they will enslave.

 

[green]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...placement.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Awesome article.

Basically, Trumpcare does nothing to address costs. In fact, it exacerbates them because it still requires insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions and kids until 26 yet eliminates the individual mandate.

Trumpcare does nothing to make health care universal. In fact, fewer people will have insurance/coverage because instead it merely offers tax credits and freezes Medicaid expansion.

Trumpcare does nothing to address quality. Nothing to help encourage people to go into health care or offer incentives to those who have good health care records.

The only positive I see from this is that finally it might overburden our system so much that we finally scrap this for profit insurance nonsense and move towards a Bismarck system, where insurance still exists but it's nonprofit.

Until we go to single payer and have cost controls in place, expenses will just continue to rise, rise, rise.

 

[infection]

Until we go to single payer and have cost controls in place, expenses will just continue to rise, rise, rise.

I think until we have a more reasonable and rational view of what healthcare is as well as what insurance is, expenses will just continue to rise.

 

[Siro]

I think until we have a more reasonable and rational view of what healthcare is as well as what insurance is, expenses will just continue to rise.

Sounds like you have a view on offer. Don't leave us hanging.

 

[babe]

The biggest dupe in the history of mankind. "Free Markets will save all". The rallying cry of the Uber-rich who will end up owning it all and the poor they will enslave.

Used to be.....1930s to 1960s.... there were plenty of church-run charitable hospitals. In Salt Lake we had Primary Childrens, Holy Cross, St. Marks, and Jordan Valley. In most moderately substantial rural areas we had "community hospitals" which got guv grants for construction, equipment, etc. All these gave care without stint to those who couldn't pay, and received donated labor from physicians, plus tax-credited private donations. Lots of folks like my dad got little plaques on the hospital hallway walls for giving money.

Then, because of litigious culture and other economic factors, most of these were privatized and sucked into some corporate outfit.

A "Free Market" is essential to all human choices. You need alternatives to make a choice about.

I know the ideals of social justice loom large in some minds, but having a choice is essential for a human being to pursue happiness, one of those ideals our founders mentioned as worth fighting for.

Milton Friedman was a pretty good economist, one of the truly great. He reasoned that whatever we subsidize gets more expensive. More dollars chasing a limited provider pool's services. We give kids college grants/loans, and give colleges grants and funding of any kind, and they just keep building buildings, hiring more soft-shoe intellectuals who have questionable exspertise, and they peddle their tin-foil philosophies all day long, and the kids eat it up, and are stunted for life, believing they know stuff that isn't so. Tuitions rise, management perks and salaries rise, and nobody questions anything.... hence, no true education takes place.

Health care is no different. We need a system where people have a choice and don't have to participate in something that's not worthwhile, or that doesn't serve the need.

Despite all the regulations our health professionals have to deal with, there has until now been enough incentive for efficiency and improved care that we have a better system than anywhere on earth, Europe included.

control of your own body, in personal matters and including health and dental care, is a fundamental human right. No one else should be meddling with you on that turf. I've figured you for a dentist, green. You have a choice, go free and find a need, and address that need, and prosper for doing it..... or sit back and be part of the machinery that grinds out commonplace if not incompetent care. It might not be a simple either/or choice, I'm sure a lot of providers conscientiously follow the book and do the standard care in pretty good skill or high levels of actually caring.... but what moves the needle in technology is the effort to challenge current standards and equipment and do better.

That stuff about the uber-rich still applies under guv-run care for the lower humanoids. While we go to the corral to be castrated, they go to their high-rise docs for transhuman treatments/implants/stem cell injections/.... everything that no ordinary subject of guv healthcare could never hope for.

In terms you might be familiar with, we get our old teeth pulled and replaced with plastic dentures, they get the gold fillings.....well, whatever there is that can be done... . .

 

[green]

Babe, I agree with a lot of what you've said, but my biggest issue is, is any of that realistic?

We've moved so far from that. Before we can make everyone pay as they go, costs have to be cut.

The middle class has to come back.

The top 1% can't own 25% of the wealth.

The tax system needs to be overhauled.

If we are going to limit welfare, we need to limit ALL welfare, including corporate tax breaks and walmart's Ponzi schemes with their employees.

The problem is that right AND left ideas are needed, but no one is willing to reach across and actually get something done.

They'd rather be right than get it right.

 

[The Thriller]

I honestly don't know much about it but a few thoughts:

- Regarding kids staying on plans until 26, that needs to go.

- With some exception, pre-existing conditions need to go. I know that not a popular opinion, but on principle I couldn't support it. Instead, certain qualifying conditions (such as kids becoming adults with genetic disorders or cancers or adults with a genetic disorder) fall under a Medicare expansion such as is done with end-stage renal disease on dialysis.

- You mention offering incentives for people to go in to healthcare. What exactly did you have in mind?

To take away the health care of those who need it the most, is morally reprehensible for most industrialized countries, except for the states.

furthermore, more often than not, those with pre-existing conditions who receive proper health care and treatments end up living long, healthy, and productive lives. This lowers the cost ultimately, that a country will pay for health care because those with pre-existing conditions are able to remain productive and their conditions typically do not degenerate into fatal and expensive tragedies.

 

[The Thriller]

I'm not arguing that it's not helpful for a lot of people. If companies want to do it I don't really care. I'm just against more rules and regulations, especially when they are unfunded.

Take away this extension, and you leave millions of young Americans without health care. Without a way for them to pay for insurance (no tax credit is big enough) we are leaving millions of young Americans vulnerable. This cost will be made up with increased premiums on the insured and a higher number of our GDP going towards health care costs.

 

[The Thriller]

For those who claim that we cannot afford universal coverage, have you looked at America's numbers and compared them to those of other countries?

We are literally spending twice in most cases, as that of fellow industrialized countries that actually provide universal coverage. If there's ever a country that needs to reform because of financial constraints, it's us. We simply cannot afford the status quo. The picture uploaded is old. We now spend 18 percent of our GDP on health care, twice that of many nations who offer superior service and universal coverage.

maybe it's time to look at nonprofit insurance? Like Germany, France, Switzerland, and Japan all have?

View attachment 5130

 

[green]

For those who claim that we cannot afford universal coverage, have you looked at America's numbers and compared them to those of other countries?

We are literally spending twice in most cases, as that of fellow industrialized countries that actually provide universal coverage. If there's ever a country that needs to reform because of financial constraints, it's us. We simply cannot afford the status quo. The picture uploaded is old. We now spend 18 percent of our GDP on health care, twice that of many nations who offer superior service and universal coverage.

maybe it's time to look at nonprofit insurance? Like Germany, France, Switzerland, and Japan all have?

View attachment 5130

This is where this fear of the government is completely irrational. There are instances where government does some amazing things. Long distance phone calling is one. Price setting in medicine is another.

Government is a tool and to ignore it is foolish. To overuse it is foolish.