Trumpcare makes things worse
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
For those with eyes to see and a mind to reason there are reasonable parallels to be drawn. For those driven only by their own unflinching dogma driven viewpoints there are only blinders to see, making sure you never stray from the One True Path.
DutchJazzer
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNxoDEyTDcQ
@thriller see tea partiers don't like it, so educate yourself
@thriller see tea partiers don't like it, so educate yourself
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Do tell.
The other mistake that both you and he make is assuming that it's an all or nothing approach. Meaning, the alternative is "government" paying for health care. In France, Germany, Switzerland, and Japan, the majority of health care is paid by nonprofit insurance. Businesses and employees pay for this. But the insurance itself must maintain nonprofit status. It helps control costs while providing universal coverage. The focus is on patients, not shareholders.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Most countries that maintain nonprofit insurance engage in 3 party negotiations. The government, doctors association, and pharmaceuticals. Widespread corruption hasn't become an issue in the health care systems I've studied. Maybe America just sucks at voting for proper representation?
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
I answered you, but I'm curious as to why you were asking this?
green
Well-Known Member
This. 1,000 times this.
green
Well-Known Member
I was starting to make assumptions about you and didn't want to assume anything. So, I asked.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
And those assumptions were? Do you disagree with my statement? If so, why?
DutchJazzer
Banned
how do you plan to combat rationing then?
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Did I make that mistake or did you misunderstand my post?
green
Well-Known Member
I disagree with your statement. The world isn't the same as it was for our parents. Our parents could get out of high school, get a job with a pension and health plan, make $X amount of dollars a year, buy a car for X/4 and a house for 3X. They'd be 3X in debt, but able to pay it all of in 15 years with a pension and a health plan.
Now? You go to school. That debt costs you 1.5X. Your house is 3X. Your car is X/3. You make X. Healthcare costs you X/10. Your pension costs you X/10. Oh, and your payments? 30 years, not 15.
Look at the two.
Option 1 to get started: 3X+(X/4).
Option 2 to get started: 4.5X + (16X/30).
And that doesn't even take into account that Option 2 requires you to pay your debt for twice as long as Option 1.
Oh, and your parents? They have no savings, they have no pensions (because they cashed out their pensions in the early 90's for that new house), they own no house, and they have $25,000 in credit card debt.
Yet, we expect this generation to do better?
It's a joke. The baby boomer generation is easily the worst generation to grace this earth. At some point, they need to step up put their share in. But, they won't. They will keep working, taking jobs from the younger generation. They will soak up Social Security, because they didn't fund their retirements. They will suck up medicare, because they are all fat and out of shape. And then when they die? They won't leave you anything, because they have nothing to leave.
They've destroyed the American Dream in one generation. Good old Reaganomics and being self sufficient, right? If we only worked as hard as they did, right? lol.
The baby boomers have gamed the system to benefit them and implode when they leave. If they are going to stay employed, if they are going to eat up the resources and be such a big drain, make them pitch in their fair share.
And if that means higher taxes on them, fine. If that means letting students stay on health insurance, then fine.
You get nothing for free in this world, yet that generation thinks that is the American Dream.
LogGrad98
Well-Known Member
Contributor
20-21 Award Winner
2022 Award Winner
2023 Award Winner
2024 Award Winner
Please quote me where I said that in any way shape or form. If you can remove the blinders long enough to find one.
I am all for medical system much like Germany's. Unlike most in America I've lived and worked under different systems. Germany's Healthcare system felt like an all expenses paid trip to Disneyland compared to the morass we have to wade through here,even while i paid higher taxes to have it. I would take that over ours yesterday. That was one of the worst things about coming back to the states.
DutchJazzer
Banned
ok, fair enough as i know you have lived/live in germany and usa both. so you might be the number 1 source on this website to go to.
i lived in coutnries where there is no government healthcare, and in the Netherlands which is pretty close to Germany (i think).
but here is my question, do you have real experience with it or just lived in those 2 countries. like from simple injuries to complicated surgeries and such.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
See, I think you're missing a lot, such as school debt. Nobody is forcing you to go to a 4 yr school. Nobody is forcing you to get a degree that doesn't pay out. I'll use agriculture as an example. I graduated in Crop science. Smaller class, probably 15 seniors at a public university. A good university, but nothing special. Every last one of us got jobs starting out at $50k plus, except for me, as I went back to the family farm and make a bit less than that, but I had offers at other places for that salary. Now in-state tuition is about $8k a year. Agriculture is hiring like crazy. So are the engineering fields.
If you don't want to do that, go do a trade. Become an electrician, a welder, a plumber, a mechanic, etc. The schooling is cheaper, you start your career sooner, and job availability is almost always high if you're good at it. And I get that not everybody will want to do that, but we have to realize going to a private university to get an Art History degree just isn't a fiscally wise decision. Of course you're gonna be in debt you can't pay off! Especially when those fields are as flooded as they are.
We have great loan options for first time buyers. Whatever you're paying in rent, find a place that you can buy and use that as a mortgage payment instead. That way you're raising equity. Cars? But what you can afford. Don't take a loan out for something that depreciates that rapidly.
I'm 27 years old. Wife, kid with another on the way. Single income of ~$43,000. Been working since I was 13, saving my money. No college debt, bc I went to an in-state school I could afford. Own one vehicle, paid it off when I bought it. Have extra money to invest, not a lot, but some. Pay for my entire family's insurance, with the help of subsidies. What I'm doing isn't unrealistic. I'm doing what the majority of young adults can, and should be doing. So yeah, I'm not gonna make excuses for a 26 year old that can't pay for insurance. There are good jobs out there, we're just not directing them towards those jobs, or they don't want to. That's not my fault, nor my problem. For those that have extenuating circumstances where they can't, we have to help them. It's only right, but too many people have too many excuses that just aren't valid.
green
Well-Known Member
I've started about a hundred replies to you. We are getting way off topic here, but it isn't bad.
I agree with a lot of what you say. BUT, it isn't always as simple as you say.
It's hard when you are told your whole life to "go to school, get the best grades you can, go to school, and everything else will work out."
The problem is that we see things through our sphere an no one else's.
There are so many things we need to fix to help people follow your plan.
We need to keep families together. We need to prevent unwanted families. We need to have a school system in place so people can be smart enough to critically think about their future. We need to make sure people are healthy enough to accomplish all this.
This all takes money. Any time you concentrate money in such small segment, bad things will happen. Right now, 24% of the wealth is held by the top 1%. That is INSANE.
When we were at our best, the top 1% held 7% of the wealth. There is a reason why everything was great then. Houses were affordable, healthcare was affordable, jobs offered pensions and healthcare, etc.
We've had a fundamental shift in this country into pure greed. Healthcare isn't about healing, it's about making money.
School isn't about learning, it's about passing tests to get more money, and creating private schools/charter schools to get more money. It's hiring less and less qualified teachers to cut expenses to get more money.
We are falling apart, and I find it ironic that the religious right is leading the charge in this wave of greed.
DutchJazzer
Banned
lets face it, ryancare/rinocare sucks.
there is no one size fits all principle. just let it all go and leave it up to the state. if uber liberal states like new york and cali come up with a epic idea and implement it it will become law nationwide. if a free for all state like Texas, has a solid free market solution maybe copy it!
but thois one size fit all for the whole damm country only creates division. between those who want govenrment to become betwene them and the docter and those who dont
there is no one size fits all principle. just let it all go and leave it up to the state. if uber liberal states like new york and cali come up with a epic idea and implement it it will become law nationwide. if a free for all state like Texas, has a solid free market solution maybe copy it!
but thois one size fit all for the whole damm country only creates division. between those who want govenrment to become betwene them and the docter and those who dont
DutchJazzer
Banned
[TWEET]840262350443839488[/TWEET]
also do any of lefties support this utter vile socialist called pelosi
she is an utter vile national sozialist
first she says this:
[video=youtube_share;9uC4bXmcUvw]https://youtu.be/9uC4bXmcUvw
now she says this
seriously! now i wished clinton won the election, because pelosi said she would have retired if clinton won.
how can anyone support this woman!
also do any of lefties support this utter vile socialist called pelosi
she is an utter vile national sozialist
first she says this:
[video=youtube_share;9uC4bXmcUvw]https://youtu.be/9uC4bXmcUvw
now she says this
seriously! now i wished clinton won the election, because pelosi said she would have retired if clinton won.
how can anyone support this woman!
Before
Before doing what's wrong in the first place..... before doing a big push to pass a bill in the middle of the night, coercing and bribing the legislators while not even letting them read the damn bill.
No, Pelosi is in fact wrong. She's wrong-headed about fixing all that's wrong with the program.
Obama and Pelosi lied every step of the way setting this up. And they set it up so it could not be un-done simply. We're going to have to back outta it, at great cost, step by step. But it has to be done, and it will be done because Americans hate this monster, and will keep voting against people who support until they are finally gone.
Before doing what's wrong in the first place..... before doing a big push to pass a bill in the middle of the night, coercing and bribing the legislators while not even letting them read the damn bill.
No, Pelosi is in fact wrong. She's wrong-headed about fixing all that's wrong with the program.
Obama and Pelosi lied every step of the way setting this up. And they set it up so it could not be un-done simply. We're going to have to back outta it, at great cost, step by step. But it has to be done, and it will be done because Americans hate this monster, and will keep voting against people who support until they are finally gone.