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I'm sure there are easier ways to give weapons to ISIS than this convoluted plot. ;)

you're right. We can march in, drop our weapons, and just run. Don't we do a lot of that?

But then, imo, the likes of Obama and Hillary love convoluted plots.

I just can't see any other reason for highly intelligent US officials to do what they did along the timeline in Benghazi. It was not that they were just stupid and thought oh, well, who cares.
 
I'd love to take this pitch.

I would not think Obama or Hillary are just stupid, not for one minute. There had to be a reason they did not respond to hundreds of requests for additional security from the station chief at Benghazi. At first they claimed the attack was spontaneous, the result of local outrage about some movie or whatever. We now know Hillary told Chelsea the attackers were terrorists literally while it was happening.

But she did nothing, Obama did nothing to protect our people. That is the scandal, take one.

I think there was a reason they told our people to stand down, not to even defend themselves. There were munitions stacked there which Obama and Hillary knew would go to ISIS if seized during an attack like this. That is all they wanted. They want our ordnance in ISIS hands. A politically-clean "transfer".

Our people there were just supposed to stand down and let it happen. But hey, they disobeyed orders and played the heroes they are, and stood up for our laws and our real interests, and for that they lost their lives, and for that Obama and Hillary are the scum they are.

I'm sure there are easier ways to give weapons to ISIS than this convoluted plot. ;)

Yeah the plot part is a bit silly, imo, but I have heard that before. The other part is mostly legit. Requests for increased security were ignored and there was solid intel that a terrorist cell was planning an attack leading up to the attack itself. They tried to blame it on outrage for a recently released video mocking islam, but then they changed their story multiple times until the white house put out official "talking points" to make sure everyone followed the same script. This was the investigation that lead to Hillary's email snafu, using a private email server for government business and what-not. Bottom line is that Hillary stood by and allowed a US official to be executed, more or less. It is very tough now to follow the trail because it has been twisted a million times from wednesday by both sides. Here is a reasonable timeline. The thing this leaves out, that was in the official reports, was the repeated requests for increased security and the intel about impending attacks, as this is primarily a timeline starting on the day the attack occurred.

https://www.factcheck.org/2012/10/benghazi-timeline/
 
excellent question.

My recognition of this comes from Mark Levin radio show. Mark Levin was an assistant in the Justice Dept during the Reagan years, is a lawyer who knows the rules we're supposed to play by.

In his program, about four or five days after Flynn bowed out under pressure resulting from phone call information leaked from our intelligence agencies. Levin noted that during that time Flynn and Trump were essentially private citizens working on ideas for the incoming Administration. Those kinds of phone calls are protected by privacy law. For a government agent to leak them is a felony.

Then we have this from the New York Times:

"But Patrick Toomey, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, called the move an erosion of rules intended to protect the privacy of Americans when their messages are caught by the N.S.A.’s powerful global collection methods. He noted that domestic internet data was often routed or stored abroad, where it may get vacuumed up without court oversight.
“Rather than dramatically expanding government access to so much personal data, we need much stronger rules to protect the privacy of Americans,” Mr. Toomey said. “Seventeen different government agencies shouldn’t be rooting through Americans’ emails with family members, friends and colleagues, all without ever obtaining a warrant.”"

ttps://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/nsa-gets-more-latitude-to-share-intercepted-communications.html?_r=0

So right away, even before Obama gets clear of the office, leaks started happening involving US citizens, and Obama's last-minute move had no other purpose but to make the trail hard to follow. Obama was getting the information on Trump and his Associates on day one after his election, and he began organize opposition to the incoming administration then, making use of that information. His moves getting the rules changed were deliberate moves intended to cover his tracks.

Obama was definitely deliberate, and felonius, in these actions.

Ah. Your understanding here is flawed. FISA rules allow for unmasking of Americans caught up in incidental surveillance if the unmasking is necessary to understand the conversation.

That said I don't agree with the rules as they are, I belive they infringe on our 4th amendment rights. But at this point there is no evidence that flynns unmasking was done in a way contrary to the law. Doubly so with regards to Obama being involved in any way.

I'd suggest getting your info from somewhere other than talk radio.
 
Ah. Your understanding here is flawed. FISA rules allow for unmasking of Americans caught up in incidental surveillance if the unmasking is necessary to understand the conversation.

That said I don't agree with the rules as they are, I belive they infringe on our 4th amendment rights. But at this point there is no evidence that flynns unmasking was done in a way contrary to the law. Doubly so with regards to Obama being involved in any way.

I'd suggest getting your info from somewhere other than talk radio.

or the news?

We have no evidence the Flynn leaks were legal, or justified, in terms of our laws. You need a reason to unmask, and if you do, it is still illegal to send them on to the Press. Dems are now hot about Nunez taking some to Trump to show they did surveil him, no Dem is howling about Obama getting the same info so he could plot to overthrow the Trump admin.

Again, there is no reasonable explanation for the series of events except that Obama was getting these sorts of results from his intelligence agencies, on US citizens charged with no crime, just his political opponents.

There is no reasonable justification of this sort of abuse of office or misuse of our intelligence agencies to shut down our political parties.

It is criminal, and it is worse than what Nixon did. Obama should be prosecuted and punished by stripping him of all the perks ex-Presidents receive, and sent back to Indonesia in exile. lol.

Trump is a patsy, he isn't even going prosecute Hillary for all her payola as Sec State, including taking bribes from Russians.
 
or the news?

We have no evidence the Flynn leaks were legal, or justified, in terms of our laws. You need a reason to unmask, and if you do, it is still illegal to send them on to the Press. Dems are now hot about Nunez taking some to Trump to show they did surveil him, no Dem is howling about Obama getting the same info so he could plot to overthrow the Trump admin.

Again, there is no reasonable explanation for the series of events except that Obama was getting these sorts of results from his intelligence agencies, on US citizens charged with no crime, just his political opponents.

There is no reasonable justification of this sort of abuse of office or misuse of our intelligence agencies to shut down our political parties.

It is criminal, and it is worse than what Nixon did. Obama should be prosecuted and punished by stripping him of all the perks ex-Presidents receive, and sent back to Indonesia in exile. lol.

Trump is a patsy, he isn't even going prosecute Hillary for all her payola as Sec State, including taking bribes from Russians.
As far as the leaking goes, you are correct that would be illegal. But let's look at the time line here. Flynn takes a call with a Russian diplomat, as a private citizen as you pointed out, and discusses sanctions with them. This is illegal. Then he lied about it, and as a result had the VP lie about it on his behalf. The justice dept headed by Obama holdover Yates tells the administration that Flynn lied about the nature of the call. They do nothing. Three weeks pass and the details of the the call is leaked to the press.

Now you are correct, the leaking of the call was illegal, but given the timeline here it seems clear to me it was leaked to the press because otherwise the whole thing would have been swept under the rug.

Also there's a world of difference between what Nunez did, tipping off the subject of an investigation you are supposed to be leading before consulting with either the Intel community or the other members of the commitee, and leaking classified info to the press.

Edited to add, there actually is a reasonable explanation for these events, which is that some members of the Trump campaign are under investigation for colluding with Russia to undermine our elections.
Also, Trump wouldn't be the one to bring charges against Clinton , that would fall to the AG. The fact that there aren't charges against Sec Clinton, might just be that she hasn't done anything she can be prosecuted for. Or it could be that the lizard people got to Sessions before he could. Hm.
JazzFanz mobile app
 
He's American. You're not. Fundamentally, it's none of your business. You do not have the right to tell an American what political opinion they can or cannot have where politics in America is concerned. By your own admission you do not participate in the political life of your own nation. Yet, somehow, you believe you have the moral authority to tell Americans how they should participate in the political life of their nation. It's fundamentally none of your business.

also American politics influence the whole world.
for example wether UN gets funding or not. opr nato. or hell how many countries have ground troops now?
also their is good things, trump winning will make oil price drop more. which is artifically high because of opec collusion
nato, so yeah stick your nose in wordlwide business and we will stick in it yours. i don't care about Switzerland because they don't tend to stick noses in things! or hiati or africa because they are to weak AND PUNY!
 
also i am working my way up to come and live there in about 15-20 years. use my retirement fund as investment capital to acquire a legal way into the country! and live there off the grid in the Bastian of liberty for about 6 months of every year
 
I'd love to take this pitch.

I would not think Obama or Hillary are just stupid, not for one minute. There had to be a reason they did not respond to hundreds of requests for additional security from the station chief at Benghazi. At first they claimed the attack was spontaneous, the result of local outrage about some movie or whatever. We now know Hillary told Chelsea the attackers were terrorists literally while it was happening.

But she did nothing, Obama did nothing to protect our people. That is the scandal, take one.

I think there was a reason they told our people to stand down, not to even defend themselves. There were munitions stacked there which Obama and Hillary knew would go to ISIS if seized during an attack like this. That is all they wanted. They want our ordnance in ISIS hands. A politically-clean "transfer".

Our people there were just supposed to stand down and let it happen. But hey, they disobeyed orders and played the heroes they are, and stood up for our laws and our real interests, and for that they lost their lives, and for that Obama and Hillary are the scum they are.
Lol
 
It's like a Rube Goldberg machine.

Some people repress their thinking to fit in. Sorta make a life of looking over their shoulder to make sure they're not straying from the herd.

The truth might be beyond the pale of what you're ready to believe......

I don't believe I know anything. I believe there are plenty of interests dedicated to conditioning public sentiment. In this case, whatever your stupid comments, you have given me little reason to discount the possibility I outlined.

Fish is a good ol boy punching the clock on a real job, I don't know who you are. I don't expect anyone to buy my load wholesale, but if you have information I'm not considering, this is your chance to affect my thinking.
 
Some people repress their thinking to fit in. Sorta make a life of looking over their shoulder to make sure they're not straying from the herd.

The truth might be beyond the pale of what you're ready to believe......

I don't believe I know anything. I believe there are plenty of interests dedicated to conditioning public sentiment. In this case, whatever your stupid comments, you have given me little reason to discount the possibility I outlined.

Fish is a good ol boy punching the clock on a real job, I don't know who you are. I don't expect anyone to buy my load wholesale, but if you have information I'm not considering, this is your chance to affect my thinking.

Oh I get it. I'm a closed minded sheep because I don't traffic in conspiracy theories.

Also, I'm good on trying to affect your mind, it seems affected enough already.
 
Oh I get it. I'm a closed minded sheep because I don't traffic in conspiracy theories.

Also, I'm good on trying to affect your mind, it seems affected enough already.

ha ha.

I wouldn't brag if I were you.

Pretty much it looks like you're an intelligent partisan determined to do what you can to invent plausible defenses for politicians you prefer.

I've gone over some of the information that's come out, and so far it's still a conspiracy theory that the Russians materially affected our elections. It was a genuine elections where Americans voted out the Dems because of Obamacare and no jobs, and the open border.
 
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People who discount "conspiracy theories" need to refine their rhetoric at least to the extent of not looking like rubes themselves denying that intelligent people ever do anything for any reason.

I don't buy your obvious, to me, denials that Obama used his office, through corrupt intel officers willing to aid and abet his political objectives.

First of all, there was nothing wrong with Flynn's contacts with Russian officials as a known member of Trump's intended team. People talk to one another. You are calling that a conspiracy, you are hawking a conspiracy theory that those contacts compromised American national interests. What did he say? Nothing has been shown to date that amounts to that.

I believe he deliberately denied doing anything he considered wrong because he took the questions as none of anybody's business. International politics always has that element of denial until it becomes purposeful to disclose something of significance. Unless the talk begins to be productive it's just getting acquainted and exploring possibilities.

I don't think Trump had any improper help or contacts from any Russians, and there is still no proven collusion. Your thesis that there was would amount, at this point in public information, to something of a conspiracy theory.

What would it take to prove collusion on the part of private citizen or his assistants/team to do something illegal in an American election? Would Obama's determined effort to affect Israel's recent elections be illegal on the same criteria? Assuming Israel has laws equivalent to our own?

I know private citizens with ties to foreign nations often "collude" or perhaps cooperate for political purposes across national lines. Sometimes it's US citizens with family or political ties to foreign nations with their own concerns for their interests. Generally they don't wiretap poltical candidates and intercept private messages. On the other hand, I'm sure government intel personnel from virtually every nation possessing such agents, will do whatever they can in that line, and try to use the intel effectively. That's the whole reason Hillary illegally doing State business on a private server is and should be illegal and should be punished legally. The DNC is a private entity, a private organization. They should take care of their own business better, or should not be trusted with the levers of government business......

The DNC leaks at this point appear, to my information, to be deliberate on the part of disaffected personnel pissed at how Bernie got shafted. I don't doubt the Russians might have tried to hack the DNC, but I've seen no proof. And then no proof that the Russians then provided media or the Trump campaign with the goods, as of now, that we actually know of. It's all suspicion, and still in the "conspiracy theory" stage of development.

Likewise, I don't have proof of what Obama did in my own possession, but here is a Pres who could reasonably believe did lean on the IRS to suppress Republican political groups, more likely than not. Pretty sure the IRS chief didn't just decide to do that with no nod from the Chief, and damn sure the Chief through his Justice Dept. did not aggressively litigatge her offenses.

If you continue to insist Obama and Hillary have no damning acts to cover up, you're worse than a nutjob, you are a partisan willing to blindly deny obvious possibilities. At least, in the common parlance, nutjobs don't usually have the functional intelligence to do much harm to our country, because ordinarily responsible folks just won't pay any attention. On the other hand, highly intelligent apologists for criminals with political agendas can and do, because they can invent effective but disingenuous denials or diversions.

Anyway, I recognize the limits of what I know, but I don't buy your denials or insults.

It's funny how much you rail against the establishment yet how much of a Trump fanboy you are. Do you really consider Trump a man of the people, inspired to serve in the name of justice and liberty? I mean seriously give me a break. Trump has enough ***** to grab, he doesn't need you on his nuts.
 
It's funny how much you rail against the establishment yet how much of a Trump fanboy you are. Do you really consider Trump a man of the people, inspired to serve in the name of justice and liberty? I mean seriously give me a break. Trump has enough ***** to grab, he doesn't need you on his nuts.

yah, I deleted the rant you quoted. I definitely don't think Hillary or Obama represent American interests nearly as much as their visions for a transformed world. I don't agree with their ideals or their morals or their intentions.

I don't think Trump is a conservative, really. He went there for the votes. But I believe he sees some problems he'd like to fix, and I agree with some of those ideas and intentions.

Beyond that, I don't think he's a sociopath or a dictator in any serious respect. He's an businessman with some corny notions about making deals and building stuff, who fundamentally likes even people like Hillary. Even though he can clearly state the things she has done that appear to be illegal on the campaign trail, he would gladly just deal with her on a friendly basis.
 
Trump cant be bothered with policy he doesnt understand!

Look, I'm not believing Trump is a real politician. You're right, he does not have patience for a lot of stuff most politicians consider essential to good manners and careful policy positions. I doubt.... have doubted from the gitgo of his campaign last year, that one man even with incredible energy and a lot of personal resilience, and a boatload of notions about "making deals" can seriously affect our course as a nation long-term.

We have immense bureaucratic inertia, and we have a system of government that basically limits what one man can do. There's a Congress and a Judicial Bank, you know.

But I agree with Trump that all that inertia needs a boot, and change in manner and method. Trump early on made the bet that the Media, the MSM.... the Time-Warner syndicate, NBC (RCA,General Motors), and ABC (Disney) are outta touch with America and people have pretty much stopped listening to them. Looks to me like he was substantially right. But the interests have doubled down on their lost bet, and essentially are now trying to undermine the American elective process, and they are nutjobs enough to think people will really get on board with all that?????

Pretty clear to me that the whole Russian collusion conspiracy theory is nuts, too.

Looks to me like the dems considered Trumps business "deals" around the world some kind of weak point, an Achilles' heel or a sort, because of the Trump brand being sold around the world because of name recognition and cache'.... This has been litigated in the Media from months ago.... Newsweek did reports that hammer on the issue...in Sept and again in Dec. .. . .merged with?/owned by IBT.... I consider the concerns something to watch, but really....

We live in an increasingly global environment of intermeshed financial interests. No one.... not the Clintons, Obama, the Bushes... is free of these kinds of entanglements given the corporate nature of their political contributors or their involvement with David Rockefeller.

Trump is the first President we've had who is not a wholly-owned Rockefeller stooge since Reagan.

Sure the "Establishment" is feeling like they're on shaky ground and the whole panic to de-legitimize the Trump election is the effort, I hope the vain effort, to re-take control for the Rockefeller interests.
 
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The myth about Trump being good at business...

It is estimated that Trump is worth 3.5B dollars. Wowzerz, that's a lot of money!

But in the late 70s he was worth $100M. Had he put his money in a stock index fund he'd currently be worth $6B instead of $3.5B.

He didn't build his fortune from nothing. His father was a wealthy real estate investor who gave Trump 40M and coached him through his first deals to get him to that $100M number. From that point forward he has performed significantly worse than the market in a sector that is damn near foolproof if you've got the money to invest and can sit back and wait for the sweet deals to beg you for some of your money to get off the ground.

The ghost writer who wrote "Art of the Deal" has a pretty low opinion of Trump. Basically sees him a a sort of man-child.

I think we can all see that.
 
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Wasn't it the Republican congress that reduced the funding for embassy security? Never could figure out how they didn't get a fair share of the blame for the lack of security at Benghazi.
I also haven't heard a peep from them about how Trumps budget proposes a 37% cut to State Dept funding...
 
The myth about Trump being good at business...

It is estimated that Trump is worth 3.5B dollars. Wowzerz, that's a lot of money!

But in the late 70s he was worth $100M. Had he put his money in a stock index fund he'd currently be worth $6B instead of $3.5B.

He didn't build his fortune from nothing. His father was a wealthy real estate investor who gave Trump 40M and coached him through his first deals to get him to that $100M number. From that point forward he has performed significantly worse than the market in a sector that is damn near foolproof if you've got the money to invest and can sit back and wait for the sweet deals to beg you for some of your money to get off the ground.

The ghost writer who wrote "Art of the Deal" has a pretty low opinion of Trump. Basically sees him a a sort of man-child.

I think we can all see that.
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ye tpeople who win the lottery become broke in a short amount of time!
 
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