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Trumpcare makes things worse

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this:

Trumcare is out! Chart showing who wins and loses:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...o-wins-who-loses-with-senate-health-care-bill

and

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...d-medicaid-cuts-would-hit-rural-patients-hard

For the hundreds of rural U.S. hospitals struggling to stay in business, health policy decisions made in Washington, D.C., this summer could make survival a lot tougher.

Since 2010, at least 79 rural hospitals have closed across the country, and nearly 700 more are at risk of closing. These hospitals serve a largely older, poorer and sicker population than most hospitals, making them particularly vulnerable to changes made to Medicaid funding.

"A lot of hospitals like [ours] could get hurt," says Kerry Noble, CEO of Pemiscot Memorial Health Systems, which runs the public hospital in Pemiscot County, one of the poorest in Missouri.

Here's What We Know About The Senate GOP Health Care Bill
The GOP's American Health Care Act would cut Medicaid — the public insurance program for many low-income families, children and elderly Americans, as well as people with disabilities — by as much as $834 billion.
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Interesting since the rural, the older, and the poorer are Trump's base. Essentially, Trumpcare would hurt the most those who support him.

Will it pass? 4 have already said that they oppose it. Republicans can only afford to have 2 oppose. So if it were voted on today, it would fail. One of those opposed is Mike Lee, of Utah.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/22/enough-gop-senators-to-block-obamacare-replacement-will-oppose.html

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) (C) speaks about Obamacare repeal and replacement while flanked by Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT)(R), and Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) (L) and members of the House Freedom Caucus, during a news conference on Capitol Hill, on March 7, 2017 in Washington, DC. Sen. Rand Paul: Senate health bill 'looks a lot like Obamacare'

Four Republican senators — enough to thwart passage — said Thursday they will not support the current Senate Obamacare replacement plan and will seek changes.

Conservatives Rand Paul of Kentucky, Ted Cruz of Texas, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and Mike Lee of Utah said in a statement that they "are not ready to vote" for the proposal Senate Republicans released Thursday.
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As one who will likely have to be on disability and Medicaid in the next few years due to illness, I'm terrified about what this means for me and others like me. I'm just about to turn 57 and will not likely live long enough to qualify for Medicare, but I've been counting on Medicaid to help me once I can no longer work. Utah doesn't have a great track record of providing money for Medicare, either, so I do not see a positive outcome for me.

I suppose I shouldn't expect special treatment. If I cannot afford to be sick, then I guess it's my responsibility to just die sooner. That's the message I'm getting.

And then again I could be panicking for nothing. Not looking like it will actually get passed.
 
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JazzGal said:
As one who will likely have to be on disability and Medicaid in the next few years due to illness, I'm terrified about what this means for me and others like me. I'm just about to turn 57 and will not likely live long enough to qualify for Medicare, but I've been counting on Medicaid to help me once I can no longer work. Utah doesn't have a great track record of providing money for Medicare, either, so I do not see a positive outcome for me.

I suppose I shouldn't expect special treatment. If I cannot afford to be sick, then I guess it's my responsibility to just die sooner. That's the message I'm getting.

And then again I could be panicking for nothing.
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Not to scare you, but you should be afraid.

My parents fell into a similar vote. My dad is older than my mom. So when he retired his company paid for their health care for 5 years. By the end of the 5 years my dad qualified for Medicare. However, my mom, who no longer works, still hasn't qualified. She runs 10 miles nearly everyday and has an insane body fat percentage. She has never had a significant Medical issue in her life.

But because she doesn't qualify for Medicare yet, they've had to buy crap insurance in the "free market" for her to have basic coverage. With a $5,000 dollar deductible my dad pays a premium of about $650 dollars. That doesn't include the costs that she has for her meds (necessary meds for her age). So for just my mom they pay nearly $800 dollars per month for her medical expenses.

Yikes

And Trumpcare doesn't help them out one bit.

If Medicaid is slashed, you'll have to wait until your savings to be exhausted until Medicaid kicks in. But who knows if will ever kick in depending on the cuts.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/27/politics/republican-health-care-bill-vote-delayed/index.html

Trumpcare delayed.

(CNN)Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will delay the vote on the Republican leadership's health care bill until after the July 4 recess, two sources told CNN.

McConnell told GOP senators that he wants to make changes to the bill, get a new Congressional Budget Office score and have a vote after the holiday.
A White House official and a GOP aide on the Hill told CNN that White House chief of staff Reince Priebus and Vice President Mike Pence invited all Republican senators to White House on Tuesday afternoon.
Republican leadership, along with Pence, had sought earlier to woo members of their own party into supporting the fragile health care bill behind closed doors Tuesday, as a fifth senator came out against voting for a procedural step to advance their plans to repeal and replace Obamacare.
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Senators are gonna take hell at home over the next few weeks. It'll be interesting to see if this is actually its death Knell or just a mere delay.
 
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Trump just makes things worse in general. Forget the Health Care disaster. Remember how easy, great, and cheap he said he would make health care? lol.

One by one our partners across the world are feeling the power shift. Today it's Iraq.
US has abandoned global leadership role, Iraqi Vice President says




Iraqi VP: American leadership is 'absent'




"To me, there is no international strategy -- no strategy for the alliances that are fighting and have helped us in this part of the fight."
Iraqi forces, supported by the US, are in pitched battle to retake the last blocks from ISIS control in Western Mosul, the extremist group's last major stronghold in Iraq.
Allawi said that the despite the imminent military victory, the US lacked a broader strategy for fighting extremism, saying it was "absent" and lacked "clear-cut policies."
Speaking in Washington on Wednesday, US National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster insisted that US strategy in the region was working well. "We are being successful with our partners in Syria. We are being successful with our Iraqi partners," he said. "There's still a lot of work to be done."
But Allawi said the US had abandoned its leadership role.
Iraqi troops closing in on ISIS in Mosul

Iraqi troops closing in on ISIS in Mosul 03:12
"There is no clear-cut policies where to go and what to do," Allawi said. "Even for Iraq, it's still premature. I think they are still deliberating on a kind of a strategy for Iraq. Nothing yet has materialized."
A wide spectrum of international forces -- including the US, the Kurds, Iran,and the governments of Syria and Iraq, -- have succeeded in fighting ISIS back from the stunning territorial victories it gained in 2014.
Mosul is now almost back in Iraqi government hands; across the border, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), a coalition of mainly Kurdish and Arab fighters, launched the final phase of their battle to recapture Raqqa earlier this month.
But Iraq has intelligence that ISIS is attempting to "forge an alliance" with Al Qaeda, the Islamist group from which it was spawned in 2013, Allawi warned.
Discussions are taking place in both Iraq and Syria, he said -- mediated by former al Qaeda members who never joined ISIS. "It is the unification of the evil forces," he said.
 
does anybody know the derivation of the term "laughingstock"?

I may have to look it up.

I'm thinking it's maybe from when folks would be locked up in the stocks in the town square and everyone would come by and laugh at them.

It fits.

Or maybe weepingstock would be more appropriate.

Blawger-in-The-Stocks.jpg
 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...epeal-no-one-is-talking-about-jobs-2017-06-28

"A recently published analysis of the impact of the American Health Care Act (AHCA) passed by the House of Representatives, from researchers at the Commonwealth Fund and the Milken Institute of Public Health at George Washington University, predicts more than 900,000 jobs will lost nationwide by 2026 if the House bill becomes law, the vast majority of which (725,000) would be lost from the health-care sector. This magnitude of job loss would mean a roll-back of nearly half of all health-care jobs gained just since January 2014.

That would be devastating news for the hundreds of thousands of health-care workers with well-paying, often skilled roles who would lose their jobs. Many of them would also lose their own employer-sponsored health insurance.

The analysis doesn’t cover the proposed Senate version of the bill, called the Better Care Reconciliation Act. A planned vote on that bill was delayed until after the July 4 recess, opening the door to changes. If an amended bill wins Senate approval, legislators will still have to work out a compromise with the House version. Even then, the expected effect of an ACA repeal on uninsurance — and therefore jobs in the health-care industry — isn’t likely to change.

Is this what the architects of ACA repeal-and-replace efforts have in mind? The major story is about the expected 20 million-plus who would lose health insurance as a result of rolling back Obamacare provisions. But this is also a national threat to jobs. The job losses in health-care may ripple through the economy to reach Americans who otherwise think their jobs and insurance coverage are safe in a post-ACA world.

To make matters worse, shrinking the health-care sector through health-care reform would not just put the brakes on a major driver of job growth over the past decade in the U.S. In essence, dismantling the ACA would put the sector in reverse. Based on recent trends, it seems unlikely that either the retail or manufacturing sectors could make up the difference. Without job growth, and certainly with job losses in its most thriving sector, the economy would be expected to slow as well."
 
The Democrats need to quit supporting Obamacare. I think now is the time to push for universal healthcare. You want your base to show up for midterms quit cheerleading for a band aid. If there is one thing to be learned from Trump it is that the center does not matter. They have boring opinions that they are not invested enough in to show up in real numbers. Certainly not a midterm election.

The DNC needs to grow a pair.
 
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moevillini said:
see post #270
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some analyst and i disagree with that statement.

those jobs might be lost that sector might suffer. but other sectors will bloom. dow jones will skyrocket.

nasdaq also!


ofcourse health care companies will suffer, because regulations protecting them will be gone!
 
DutchJazzer said:
some analyst and i disagree with that statement.

those jobs might be lost that sector might suffer. but other sectors will bloom. dow jones will skyrocket.

nasdaq also!


ofcourse health care companies will suffer, because regulations protecting them will be gone!
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No, Moe's right here.

Stock Market is business value for established businesses, not startups. Everyone doing business is negatively impacted by Obamacare costs of labor for their employees. Everybody selling everything is negatively impacted when one corrupt band of thieves establishes a corner on something everyone must buy. Costs for such government-enforced markets always go through the roof, and it always sucks everything else down.

The idea that Obamacare would be repealed was practically the whole Trump Rally. Not repealing it will send businesses down the sewer.

In order for the market to find a more appropriate balance between competitive needs and limited incomes, you have to get rid of government-backed cartels and ideas like single-payer(taxpayer) anything.
 
♪alt13 said:
The Democrats need to quit supporting Obamacare. I think now is the time to push for universal healthcare. You want your base to show up for midterms quit cheerleading for a band aid. If there is one thing to be learned from Trump it is that the center does not matter. They have boring opinions that they are not invested enough in to show up in real numbers. Certainly not a midterm election.

The DNC needs to grow a pair.
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I disagree. Don't do this yet.

Let Trumpcare die on its own. Republicans are taking hell for it. Those senators brave enough to hold town halls are being screamed at. The GOP is tearing itself apart between moderates and extremists. Why throw them a life preserver? The more they cannibalize each other, the better. Trump, when he's not whining about CNN or Mika, is flip flopping on his campaign promises regarding health care. This could be Trump's Waterloo. By forcing him to abandon health reform and reminding all of America of his broken promise, it will serve as the first major campaign promise he's broken that even his most ardent worshippers might find unforgivable. A major defeat that could compromise his ability to enact any major legislation during his tenure.

Here in a few weeks once Trumpcare has flopped and repubs are trudging through tax reform, democrats could then announce a universal health care plan via fixing Obamacare. I personally, would like to see a single payer system involving nonprofit wellness insurance funds, like France, Japan, Germany, and Switzerland. But Democrats, need to be careful when talking about this. They must not allow repubs to demonize single payer systems with the S-word and allow it to backfire on them as what happened in 1994 and 2008.

Health care, sadly is one of those issues that typically backfires on a party. Despite developing an improved system, there will always be imperfect characteristics in a system that the other party will seek to exploit. Sadly, Americans are so polarized, so poorly informed about health care systems, and am radio is so powerful right now, that even a popular concept like universal health care, could be killed in its embryonic stage if Democrats come out with plans for a single payer system. Doing so could not only stifle the momentum democrats have right now but also get Donald and the worthless republicans off the hook.
 
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But Thriller, they will rally and pull together. They'll end up listening to a leader and following the directives as instructed.

Go reread that article that I posted in the other thread about George Lakoff's ideas - read it all the way to the end. That was the whole point of it in my opinion. Republicans tend to lean towards hierarchy with a single authority figure at the top - Democrats try to build consensus and rule in a more cooperative fashion.

It's like the Republicans are hard-wired to fall into line. So they will.

Not that I'm happy about it - not at all.
 
♪alt13 said:
The Democrats need to quit supporting Obamacare. I think now is the time to push for universal healthcare. You want your base to show up for midterms quit cheerleading for a band aid. If there is one thing to be learned from Trump it is that the center does not matter. They have boring opinions that they are not invested enough in to show up in real numbers. Certainly not a midterm election.

The DNC needs to grow a pair.
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As much as I hate to say it, it won't happen. This article mentions,
Hillary Clinton once considered such a system, but wondered, “Is there any force on the face of the earth that would counter the money the insurance industry would spend to defeat it?”
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https://theintercept.com/2017/07/01/dick-gephardt-single-payer-health-insurance-lobbyists/
 
The Thriller said:
I disagree. Don't do this yet.

Let Trumpcare die on its own. Republicans are taking hell for it. Those senators brave enough to hold town halls are being screamed at. The GOP is tearing itself apart between moderates and extremists. Why throw them a life preserver? The more they cannibalize each other, the better. Trump, when he's not whining about CNN or Mika, is flip flopping on his campaign promises regarding health care. This could be Trump's Waterloo. By forcing him to abandon health reform and reminding all of America of his broken promise, it will serve as the first major campaign promise he's broken that even his most ardent worshippers might find unforgivable. A major defeat that could compromise his ability to enact any major legislation during his tenure.

Here in a few weeks once Trumpcare has flopped and repubs are trudging through tax reform, democrats could then announce a universal health care plan via fixing Obamacare. I personally, would like to see a single payer system involving nonprofit wellness insurance funds, like France, Japan, Germany, and Switzerland. But Democrats, need to be careful when talking about this. They must not allow repubs to demonize single payer systems with the S-word and allow it to backfire on them as what happened in 1994 and 2008.

Health care, sadly is one of those issues that typically backfires on a party. Despite developing an improved system, there will always be imperfect characteristics in a system that the other party will seek to exploit. Sadly, Americans are so polarized, so poorly informed about health care systems, and am radio is so powerful right now, that even a popular concept like universal health care, could be killed in its embryonic stage if Democrats come out with plans for a single payer system. Doing so could not only stifle the momentum democrats have right now but also get Donald and the worthless republicans off the hook.
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All I meant was before the midterm. They don't even need a bill. They just need to talk about it differently. People are selfish.they don't really care about the uninsured that much. They need to focus on cost savings, waste, and service. They need to convince people that even after taxes they will save money and have better more convenient service without endless paperwork.
 
moevillini said:
But Thriller, they will rally and pull together. They'll end up listening to a leader and following the directives as instructed.

Go reread that article that I posted in the other thread about George Lakoff's ideas - read it all the way to the end. That was the whole point of it in my opinion. Republicans tend to lean towards hierarchy with a single authority figure at the top - Democrats try to build consensus and rule in a more cooperative fashion.

It's like the Republicans are hard-wired to fall into line. So they will.

Not that I'm happy about it - not at all.
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I would argue with the "consensus" part as I feel it is more like mob rule or group-think, or "get on the bus or we will run you over", otherwise spot on.
 
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