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Trump's golf bill

Obama posted a 40% approval rating (Gallup polls) multiple times in his presidency. Also, IMO, this article really sums up why Trump won.

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/312322-anthony-bourdain-trump-won-because-people-were-sick-of?amp



He gave a very good interview on this. I detest trump as much as the next guy, but his message obviously rang true for enough people to win the election.

I think some of the support for him we are still seeing is simply people in denial, maybe willing to turn a blind eye because no one likes to be wrong and have their noses rubbed in it. I think that last part explains some of it too, backlash against the backlash, so to speak.

Some of them, of course, are simply on board, fully indoctrinated. Either dyed in the wool repubs, closet, or open, racists, and, yes, some despicable people.

But I think a bigger part is purely ignorance of the reality of it all. A lot of people only follow any of this stuff at election time then defend their decision mostly blindly.

I agree.

Rich coastal elitists who haven’t ever done their own grocery shopping and only seem to enrich themselves should stop insulting the working class.



The difference between how Trump treats regular Americans and how Trumpers think he treats them couldn’t be more different.
 
"The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we're seeing now," Bourdain told Reason


Not buying this at all. It's not "on both sides" as Trump put it.

Over the years it has increasingly been the right-wingers(not true conservatives, who are still out there but aren't speaking up) who use the word liberal as an insult. The far right has become like a cult... anything goes as long as it strengthens the zealotry. It's a shame that the good people who consider themselves classical Republicans and those who are centrists aren't stepping up to denounce the new direction of the Republican party. We are currently a three party country(Dems, Repubs and those who won't be characterized by either one) but the centrists have no voice. Most centrists avoid confrontation. They need to speak up for decency.

I find that funny. So many people voted for trump simply because lots of people were saying bad things about them. Not because they thought trump would be a good president or that they liked him but simply because a bunch of liberals said stuff about them and hurt their feelings. Man, those who voted for trump are even stupider and softer than i originally thought. Bunch a snowflakes apparently.

Well the liberals kind of deserve it, they are a bunch of self serving arsehols and hypocrites, they have been attacked by the right for you know advocating things like a fairer better society, that's more inclusive and so on, instead of defending themselves and the long glorious post war history of social democracy that was fueled by liberal ideas, they cowered and most importantly of all embraced neo-liberal economics. Which has weakened states and empowered corporations who are in turn consuming our democracies and societies. liberals are so ****ing dumb they may as well vote republican. They are the panda that won't **** to ensure the survival of their species.
 
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It’s absurd to think that republicans support trump merely to “stick it to the libs.” That’s not supported by evidence. After 2008, we saw a huge backlash against minorities, unprecedented obstruction by republicans in Congress, and voter suppression.

Clearly, trump tapped into racial resentment that was torn anew when a black man dared to win their White House.

This isn’t a policy issue, conservative vs liberal. If it were, wed see a hell of a lot more republicans upset over trump busting deficits, growing government, and impeding the free market.

It’s a cultural issue. And it’s very much a cultural issue between old white bigots and those “on the other side.” fortunately, the old white bigots are a shrinking demographic. They’re the minorities. Unfortunately, they’re the ones with the cash, connections, and power right now.
 
It’s absurd to think that republicans support trump merely to “stick it to the libs.” That’s not supported by evidence. After 2008, we saw a huge backlash against minorities, unprecedented obstruction by republicans in Congress, and voter suppression.

Clearly, trump tapped into racial resentment that was torn anew when a black man dared to win their White House.

This isn’t a policy issue, conservative vs liberal. If it were, wed see a hell of a lot more republicans upset over trump busting deficits, growing government, and impeding the free market.

It’s a cultural issue. And it’s very much a cultural issue between old white bigots and those “on the other side.” fortunately, the old white bigots are a shrinking demographic. They’re the minorities. Unfortunately, they’re the ones with the cash, connections, and power right now.

They also raise white young bigots, who will have the cash, connections and power in the future.
 
liberals are so ****ing dumb they may as well vote republican.
See i think it would be much better if people voted for who they thought would be the best president.
I think anyone and everyone who simply votes "republican" or "democrat" are dumbasses.

This two party, lesser of two evils, partisan crap is the worst thing about america imo.
Other than the fact that trump is our president anyways.
 
Obama posted a 40% approval rating (Gallup polls) multiple times in his presidency. Also, IMO, this article really sums up why Trump won.

https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/312322-anthony-bourdain-trump-won-because-people-were-sick-of?amp



He gave a very good interview on this. I detest trump as much as the next guy, but his message obviously rang true for enough people to win the election.

I think some of the support for him we are still seeing is simply people in denial, maybe willing to turn a blind eye because no one likes to be wrong and have their noses rubbed in it. I think that last part explains some of it too, backlash against the backlash, so to speak.

Some of them, of course, are simply on board, fully indoctrinated. Either dyed in the wool repubs, closet, or open, racists, and, yes, some despicable people.

But I think a bigger part is purely ignorance of the reality of it all. A lot of people only follow any of this stuff at election time then defend their decision mostly blindly.

Sometimes I watch at least portions of Trump's rallies. His anti-intellectualism and anti-elite rhetoric is very noticeable. I assume, maybe incorrectly, that the supporters attending these rallies are the core of the core where his followers are concerned. I mean, this is not a bright man they are listening to, he rambles on stupidly, he spits out lie after lie, and they in turn keep chanting "lock her up". The Q or QAnon tee shirts and signs show many of these rally attendees are irrational conspiracy believers, every bit as much as Trump himself. These are people who are part of a cult of personality. For these followers it's likely true that he could shoot somebody in the street, and they would not walk away from that cult.

I think we should also keep in mind the extent to which Trump helps promote alternative reality conspiracy theories, repeats "fake news!!" until it's a mantra, and helps create a mental/emotional anti-liberal hatred that is an integral part of this cult. When you see him describe, as he did the other day, an interpretation of midterm elections in which his fearmongering includes warnings of extreme violence by his opposition, should they win, this too is crafting that alternative reality in which he is the victim. The victim of elites, the victim of "fake news" media, the victim of an evil Deep State. The Democrats become the enemy of America in this worldview. He didn't invent the attitude of tribalism that has both liberal and conservative seeing the other side as the enemy, but he has done more then anyone to make this an attitude near impossible to escape from by now.

Repeat a lie often enough, and quite a few will believe it. Nobody knows that better then Trump. He's created this cult right in front of our eyes, in plain view. So, especially at his rallies, I see a lot of really irrational people, who are so absorbed into this cult, there is simply no way they will ever see the demise of Trump, via impeachment or ballot box, as anything but part of a vast conspiracy of the Deep State, with Democratic-run pediphile rings thrown in for good measure. These are not rational people. And neither is Trump. And he is not a good candidate for good decision making the more like a cornered animal he becomes.

It's almost like the core of his supporters, represented by the attendees of his rallies, will need deprogramming strategies to erase the foundations of the conspiracy, fear mongering, alternative, looney tune reality in which they live. That will be one tough nut to crack once Trump is gone. And he is not going to go quietly into the night.

So maybe these Trump rally attendees are a real minority among his supporters. But they are the ones he enjoys appealing to the most. They are the ones whose adulation he seeks out. And he sure doesn't appeal to their rational minds. And they sure act like it's the looney tunes he sings that most appeal to them.
 
So you voted for Bernie? Hillary? Evan?

Dude, I don't believe you. LOL.
I don't care if you believe me. Not only did I vote for Evan, I campaigned for him. I was hoping Utah would send a message that they would not vote for either of the two lousy major party candidates. And I have said many times that Trump is a major paradox for me. I see him as a self-centered narcissist. I'm glad he is appointing judges and not Hillary. I am glad that he is undoing a lot of Obama executive orders. I think he is an absolute idiot on Twitter. I think that he is surprisingly effective though I hate his divisiveness. I am stunned at his thirst for chaos and amazed that it seems to fuel him. I continue to believe that his enemies, especially those in the media, are doing their cause a major disservice by overstating virtually everything. It makes it easy for him to rally his base, and it convinces many people (including me) that the media out to get him and really doesn't care about the actual facts. The differences in how they handled issues surrounding Hillary and issues surrounding Trump is stark. The bias is obvious.
 
By coincidence, right after posting those thoughts above, this article from the New York Times shows up in my Google news feed. Of course, Trump has a new conspiracy theory where Google search is concerned...

The Commander of Fear:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/29/opinion/trump-fear.html

"Fear is an easily activated emotion. It’s cheap. It’s effective. Trump knows all of this, and he uses it.

It is easier to instill people with fear than to imbue them with hope.

Fear doesn’t have to be rational or reasonable to be real.

A lie is just as solid a foundation for fear as truth is. Indeed, the lie is probably an even better foundation.

Trump is playing the people who support him and they revel in the delight of being played. It’s all dramatic theater, a game in which the rule maker is armed with the power of the presidency.

He doesn’t so much expose them to new fears as he draws up within them their existing fears. Trump is the Commander of Fear and those who support him have found a perverse comfort in that fear."
 
They also raise white young bigots, who will have the cash, connections and power in the future.

Only partially true. Whites aren’t reproducing st near the rate as other demographics. That’s why republicans are trying so hard to suppress voters. We can normally outvote the hell out of republicans and their widely unpopular agendas.

As the GOP becomes increasingly smaller, the more extremist positions it will take. Trump is just a symptom of a decaying corpse.
 
Which Trump policies specifically are you in favor of?
I like conservative judges, I like tax reform, I like decreased business regulations, I am for immigration reform (just like the Dems used to be before they decided they needed to overreact and define everything as racist), I think the Iran deal was an absolute joke, I think that Trump's approach to South Korea is far more likely to yield positive results than Obama's was (although I wish he didn't have a Twitter account and I know there is a long, long way to go).

If I had my choice Mitt Romney would have become president. I believe he would have done a much better job than any other recent president, but his campaign taught Republicans that taking the high road is the path to ruin. In the last several weeks of the campaign he was hit with everything they had and he chose not to respond. The books full of women thing, for instance. There was nothing negative about that, but his opponents turned it into a huge negative. The result was an L. Trump was the opposite. He responded to anything and everything, even things he only imagined. Unfortunately it says a lot about the nature of politics in this country.
 
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The differences in how they handled issues surrounding Hillary and issues surrounding Trump is stark. The bias is obvious.

The media did a pretty **** job in 2016, but the idea that they were too forgiving to Hillary Clinton is just absurd. Take the coverage of her emails for example. From Sept thru November The NYT had the same number of front page stories about her emails in six days as they did about her policies over sixty-nine days. Meanwhile the Trump administration is rife with private email use, and Trump himself conducts business on an unsecured phone, and it maaaybe cracks the top 100 scandals of his presidency.
 
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It's bad that centrists have given up their voice. Most centrists avoid confrontation.
Sometimes I watch at least portions of Trump's rallies. His anti-intellectualism and anti-elite rhetoric is very noticeable. I assume, maybe incorrectly, that the supporters attending these rallies are the core of the core where his followers are concerned. I mean, this is not a bright man they are listening to, he rambles on stupidly, he spits out lie after lie, and they in turn keep chanting "lock her up". The Q or QAnon tee shirts and signs show many of these rally attendees are irrational conspiracy believers, every bit as much as Trump himself. These are people who are part of a cult of personality. For these followers it's likely true that he could shoot somebody in the street, and they would not walk away from that cult.

I think we should also keep in mind the extent to which Trump helps promote alternative reality conspiracy theories, repeats "fake news!!" until it's a mantra, and helps create a mental/emotional anti-liberal hatred that is an integral part of this cult. When you see him describe, as he did the other day, an interpretation of midterm elections in which his fearmongering includes warnings of extreme violence by his opposition, should they win, this too is crafting that alternative reality in which he is the victim. The victim of elites, the victim of "fake news" media, the victim of an evil Deep State. The Democrats become the enemy of America in this worldview. He didn't invent the attitude of tribalism that has both liberal and conservative seeing the other side as the enemy, but he has done more then anyone to make this an attitude near impossible to escape from by now.

Repeat a lie often enough, and quite a few will believe it. Nobody knows that better then Trump. He's created this cult right in front of our eyes, in plain view. So, especially at his rallies, I see a lot of really irrational people, who are so absorbed into this cult, there is simply no way they will ever see the demise of Trump, via impeachment or ballot box, as anything but part of a vast conspiracy of the Deep State, with Democratic-run pediphile rings thrown in for good measure. These are not rational people. And neither is Trump. And he is not a good candidate for good decision making the more like a cornered animal he becomes.

It's almost like the core of his supporters, represented by the attendees of his rallies, will need deprogramming strategies to erase the foundations of the conspiracy, fear mongering, alternative, looney tune reality in which they live. That will be one tough nut to crack once Trump is gone. And he is not going to go quietly into the night.

So maybe these Trump rally attendees are a real minority among his supporters. But they are the ones he enjoys appealing to the most. They are the ones whose adulation he seeks out. And he sure doesn't appeal to their rational minds. And they sure act like it's the looney tunes he sings that most appeal to them.


One of my friends since college, 50 yrs old white male, fits your description of the conspiracy loving Trump supporter. And he's a pot smoking mormon. And he loves the Jazz.
 
Now he gets fiscally responsible? When it hurts people? Great. Now I'm more resentful of his golfing.

And his base will be happy about it somehow.

Tax reform just looks better and better, right?


Limiting federal jobs may be the only thing Trump has done that I fully agree with. I've mentioned this in other threads, and will state again that I worked for the Federal Government in DC, and I was shocked at the misappropriation of funds, and the number of federal employees that literally did nothing. I was working right after Obama became President. Due to all the hiring freezes, our department anticipated future freezes and pre-hired above our need. My division had four people that had literally nothing to do. Not to mention getting new carpet, etc., every year, because your next fiscal years budget will not exceed your current years spending (e.g. if your budget for FY 18 is $3MM, but you spend only $2.8MM, your next years budget will be $2.8MM-creating an incentive to overspend). I'd also like to see the slow tapering of the size of our military. We should become more efficient as a country. Too much waste. I agree that the golf costs are ridiculous, but any days Trump is out of the Oval Office/not working is good for the county.

I have no issues with tax reform. Our government collects plenty in tax. It is the overspending/inefficiencies and misuse of funds that I have an issue with. This is a purely apolitical statement, it doesn't matter who is in office. Two sides of the same coin. I truly hate liberal and conservative politicians equally. Both love trashing and vilifying each other (democrats are socialists, the Muslim Kenyan is going to destroy the country, and; republicans are racists backwater hillbillies, Trump is Hitler, etc.). I see this same **** on this forum everyday. And when forum members post **** like this they are part of the problem. Easy to point the finger and lay blame on each other rather than taking responsibility for our mistakes and making improvements. Easy to get comfortable and pander to your lobbyists that will keep you in office instead of serving your constituents. Too easy to come up with your pet projects that may have some good benefit on a micro level without looking at the good of the country as a whole. Too easy to pass the buck to the next generation continue growing the national debt that will soon have more interest than the taxes the government collects in a year. Our ancestors put us in this position, and we continue to pass the buck and blame everyone else for our issues. And unfortunately, the media does too good of a job highlighting and perpetuating (and sometimes even creating) these stereotypes as it helps with the ratings.
 
I don't care if you believe me. Not only did I vote for Evan, I campaigned for him. I was hoping Utah would send a message that they would not vote for either of the two lousy major party candidates. And I have said many times that Trump is a major paradox for me. I see him as a self-centered narcissist. I'm glad he is appointing judges and not Hillary. I am glad that he is undoing a lot of Obama executive orders. I think he is an absolute idiot on Twitter. I think that he is surprisingly effective though I hate his divisiveness. I am stunned at his thirst for chaos and amazed that it seems to fuel him. I continue to believe that his enemies, especially those in the media, are doing their cause a major disservice by overstating virtually everything. It makes it easy for him to rally his base, and it convinces many people (including me) that the media out to get him and really doesn't care about the actual facts. The differences in how they handled issues surrounding Hillary and issues surrounding Trump is stark. The bias is obvious.


Cool, I voted for Evan too. Good on ya.

But I disagree about the disservice part. Media IS paying attention to the facts. Most media. Enough so that anyone with half a brain can decipher the damage Trump is doing to our society. Sure, there's some B.S. press to blame but that's just fodder compared to the real stuff Herr Drumpf gives us every day. It's a cop out to blame the media.
 
**** evangelicals. They’ve lost the moral standing to lecture us about anything. Out vote the hell out of those racist hypocrites.

If American Christianity supports trump, then it’s time for Christianity to die out. And yes, that stands for Mormons too. If Mormonism can no longer stand up to the immorality of the modern King Noah, then it needs to die out, just as it did with the Nephites.

If his immorality didn’t scare Mormons, then his authoritarianism should. Today, trump is attacking Muslims, blacks, and Hispanics. If we don’t stand up for them now who’ll stand up for Mormons when Trump comes after them?

I find this post utterly offensive, as a christian. Please don’t put all of christianity in the same box, or is there no room for christians who don’t belong in any church.

You talk about bigotry, how about you take a look in the mirror..
 
The media did a pretty **** job in 2016, but the idea that they were too forgiving to Hillary Clinton is just absurd. Take the coverage of her emails for example. From Sept thru November The NYT had the same number of front page stories about her emails in six days as they did about her policies over sixty-nine days. Meanwhile the Trump administration is rife with private email use, and Trump himself conducts business on an unsecured phone, and it maaaybe cracks the top 100 scandals of his presidency.
Hillary deleted subpoenaed emails. The media and FBI don't seem to care. Mind blown.
 
It's bad that centrists have given up their voice. Most centrists avoid confrontation.



One of my friends since college, 50 yrs old white male, fits your description of the conspiracy loving Trump supporter. And he's a pot smoking mormon. And he loves the Jazz.
You consider a person who supports Trump to be a personal friend? How can you live with yourself?
 
Hillary deleted subpoenaed emails. The media and FBI don't seem to care. Mind blown.
Yeah the media didn't care so much that it accounted for the majority of her pre-election coverage. And the FBI cared so little that they carried out a year long investigation into it, and then contrary to dept standards, announced they were reopening the investigation days before the election.

You know, for a non Trump supporter you sure do a great job of echoing his talking points.
 
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