Trump's golf bill

[Zombie]

Limiting federal jobs may be the only thing Trump has done that I fully agree with. I've mentioned this in other threads, and will state again that I worked for the Federal Government in DC, and I was shocked at the misappropriation of funds, and the number of federal employees that literally did nothing. I was working right after Obama became President. Due to all the hiring freezes, our department anticipated future freezes and pre-hired above our need. My division had four people that had literally nothing to do. Not to mention getting new carpet, etc., every year, because your next fiscal years budget will not exceed your current years spending (e.g. if your budget for FY 18 is $3MM, but you spend only $2.8MM, your next years budget will be $2.8MM-creating an incentive to overspend). I'd also like to see the slow tapering of the size of our military. We should become more efficient as a country. Too much waste. I agree that the golf costs are ridiculous, but any days Trump is out of the Oval Office/not working is good for the county.

I have no issues with tax reform. Our government collects plenty in tax. It is the overspending/inefficiencies and misuse of funds that I have an issue with. This is a purely apolitical statement, it doesn't matter who is in office. Two sides of the same coin. I truly hate liberal and conservative politicians equally. Both love trashing and vilifying each other (democrats are socialists, the Muslim Kenyan is going to destroy the country, and; republicans are racists backwater hillbillies, Trump is Hitler, etc.). I see this same **** on this forum everyday. And when forum members post **** like this they are part of the problem. Easy to point the finger and lay blame on each other rather than taking responsibility for our mistakes and making improvements. Easy to get comfortable and pander to your lobbyists that will keep you in office instead of serving your constituents. Too easy to come up with your pet projects that may have some good benefit on a micro level without looking at the good of the country as a whole. Too easy to pass the buck to the next generation continue growing the national debt that will soon have more interest than the taxes the government collects in a year. Our ancestors put us in this position, and we continue to pass the buck and blame everyone else for our issues. And unfortunately, the media does too good of a job highlighting and perpetuating (and sometimes even creating) these stereotypes as it helps with the ratings.

$1.5 trillion dollar handout to the wealthy = totally cool, but a $25 billion dollar raise for middle class workers = unacceptable.

Good lord we are so ****ed.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Yeah the media didn't care so much that it accounted for the majority of her pre-election coverage. And the FBI cared so little that they carried out a year long investigation into it, and then contrary to dept standards, announced they were reopening the investigation days before the election.

You know, for a non Trump supporter you sure do a great job of echoing his talking points.

Both the media and the FBI seemed determined to minimize this story, and especially to forgive Hillary. The stories you refer to were not about Hillary's wrongdoing. They were mostly about how her opponents wouldn't let this matter drop even though, according to the media, there was no substance to the accusations. The investigation was reopened after copies of many of the emails the FBI had dismissed as deleted were discovered on Anthony Weiner's laptop. They kept it quiet for a while, then Comey started worrying that if word got out that they had the emails before the election but hid that info from the public there might be hell to pay. He admits to making a measured decision based upon the fact that he though Hillary couldn't lose. He was trying to cover his own butt.

 

[str8line]

You consider a person who supports Trump to be a personal friend? How can you live with yourself?

Barely.

I have grave reservations about racists, misogynists, classists, etc.. And Trump supporters can't have it both ways. Sucks because I have to reassess my relationships. I try to talk sense to some of them but it's tough. I see some change though. There's a lot of messed up people out there.

I think of Germany and how many people got sucked in.

 

[fishonjazz]

Both the media and the FBI seemed determined to minimize this story, and especially to forgive Hillary. The stories you refer to were not about Hillary's wrongdoing. They were mostly about how her opponents wouldn't let this matter drop even though, according to the media, there was no substance to the accusations. The investigation was reopened after copies of many of the emails the FBI had dismissed as deleted were discovered on Anthony Weiner's laptop. They kept it quiet for a while, then Comey started worrying that if word got out that they had the emails before the election but hid that info from the public there might be hell to pay. He admits to making a measured decision based upon the fact that he though Hillary couldn't lose. He was trying to cover his own butt.

You remember things differently than i do. I remember everyone thinking the emails were a big deal. Everyone. Hell, its the whole reason that someone as horrible as trump is in the white house right now imo.

 

[Zombie]

Both the media and the FBI seemed determined to minimize this story, and especially to forgive Hillary. The stories you refer to were not about Hillary's wrongdoing. They were mostly about how her opponents wouldn't let this matter drop even though, according to the media, there was no substance to the accusations. The investigation was reopened after copies of many of the emails the FBI had dismissed as deleted were discovered on Anthony Weiner's laptop. They kept it quiet for a while, then Comey started worrying that if word got out that they had the emails before the election but hid that info from the public there might be hell to pay. He admits to making a measured decision based upon the fact that he though Hillary couldn't lose. He was trying to cover his own butt.

If 'the media' wanted to minimize the email scandal why would it dominate their coverage of her? I guarantee you the NYT was not putting stories on their front page about how her opponents were talking about her emails. That's straight up ****ing nonsense.

It's longstanding tradition not to make investigations into candidates public during the election. Which is why we didn't learn about the investigation into Trumps campaign until afterwards. I don't give a **** what the reason was, but they broke that tradition with Hillary, and it probably cost her the election. So kindly spare me any suggestion that they were trying to help her out. It just doesn't jibe with the facts.

 

[The Thriller]

$1.5 trillion dollar handout to the wealthy = totally cool, but a $25 billion dollar raise for middle class workers = unacceptable.

Good lord we are so ****ed.

Yep.

And apparently republicans are down with subsidizing failing businesses and picking winners and losers. Remember how repubs had a panic attack over sylandra? Now they’re fine with the government picking winners and losers of the trade wars and bailouts. What happened to the free market?

Now trump wants to take control of social media and google searches?

Remember when obama was accused of being big gubbamint for forcing everyone into buying health insurance? Nanny state, remember? Nothing more nanny state than state control of the media and Internet.

 

[Zombie]

Yep.

And apparently republicans are down with subsidizing failing businesses and picking winners and losers. Remember how repubs had a panic attack over sylandra? Now they’re fine with the government picking winners and losers of the trade wars and bailouts. What happened to the free market?

Now trump wants to take control of social media and google searches?

Remember when obama was accused of being big gubbamint for forcing everyone into buying health insurance? Nanny state, remember? Nothing more nanny state than state control of the media and Internet.

It's almost like their crowing about the 'free market' is just a pretext to enact policies that disproportionately help them and their wealthy donors at the expense of the middle and working class.

 

[The Thriller]

It's almost like their crowing about the 'free market' is just a pretext to enact policies that disproportionately help them and their wealthy donors at the expense of the middle and working class.

Absolutely. When they accuse the left of “socialism” it’s yet just another dog whistle for killing programs that help minorities. The poor white working class is just collateral damage in their efforts to enrich the elite whites and continue to enslave minorities.

That’s why we’re seeing so many attacks on affirmative action, pell grants, the social safety net, etc.

Hell, even declining to increase wages for federal employees is tied with racism. Far higher percentage of african Americans work in the federal government than in the private sector. The private sector has historically discriminated against them while the government had not been allowed to. But Trump’s “concern” over the deficit is superficial. He didn’t bat an eye giving $1.5 trillion in handouts to himself and his rich white buddies. But $25 billion suddenly breaks the bank?

So he’s really hitting two birds with one stone. He’s hurting minorities while feeding his base with their mindless anti-government rhetoric. They cheer him on while forgetting that him refusing to raise the salaries of federal employees will undoubtedly hurt directly and indirectly working class whites. But they’ve been brainwashed so thoroughly that they don’t understand.

 

[Zombie]

Absolutely. When they accuse the left of “socialism” it’s yet just another dog whistle for killing programs that help minorities. The poor white working class is just collateral damage in their efforts to enrich the elite whites and continue to enslave minorities.

That’s why we’re seeing so many attacks on affirmative action, pell grants, the social safety net, etc.

The irony is that thanks in part to the GOP calling Obamacare 'socialist' for 8 years, actual socialist policies like medicare for all have never been more popular.

 

[The Thriller]

The irony is that thanks in part to the GOP calling Obamacare 'socialist' for 8 years, actual socialist policies like medicare for all have never been more popular.

Yep. And well push them through. The anger that’s building up because of trump will push progressive policies to be passed. Some will be good, like universal health care. Some might backfire. But we cannot continue on like this. A government that only serves a handful of people isn’t sustainable without heavy authoritarian intervention. Which he might deploy soon, who knows?

 

[JAZZGASM]

$1.5 trillion dollar handout to the wealthy = totally cool, but a $25 billion dollar raise for middle class workers = unacceptable.

Good lord we are so ****ed.

Very disingenuous post. First, we are talking $25B per year in actual spending. The tax cuts were estimated to save $150B per year, yet tax revenue is outpacing any other year. Could the cuts have helped the 95% more? Sure, but I'm a realist and know how slimy politicians operate. But the fact is, the cuts have been good for the economy.


Please look at the tax revenue collected from all sources in 2017 and projected to date for 2018. While federal income tax revenue may be about the same, the increase in payroll tax (medicare, SSA) went up tremendously, as did state sales tax income. The estimates for next year are even higher.

Fiscal Year Federal Revenue State Revenue Local Revenue Total Revenue
2016 $3.27 trillion $1.50 trillion $1.23 trillion $6.00 trillion
2017 $3.32 trillion $1.55 trillion $1.26 trillion $6.12 trillion
2018 $3.34 trillion $1.59 trillion $1.28 trillion $6.21 trillion
2019 $3.42 trillion $1.64 trillion $1.32 trillion $6.38 trillion
See also:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...percent-in-first-quarter-census-idUSKBN1JF2Y2
Fed and State revenue has grown and corporate revenue has remained the same, even with the lowering of the corporate rate. Sales tax revenue has increased by 5%.


The Federal Gov't is expected to have the same revenue growth that they did from 15-16, yet somehow there is supposed to be a $150B "handout" every year over the next decade. Again, if those savings create more spending, hence more revenue, wtf are you complaining about?

We can argue how much the tax bill boosted the economy, but it definitely helped. When you reduce taxable income, you increase consumer spending (which creates more income!). The problem is, even with higher receipts from 2017, the deficit has grown even more than it had last year at this time. Fiscally responsible government spending does not seem to be possible in this country. And Republicans are supposed to promote responsible government spending (a bunch of b.s.-as I stated above, all politicians are the same).

Here is a fact: Having a high corporate tax rate is a great idea if you do not want businesses to invest in the United States. There is a direct correlation (business or individual) to avoid investments with high taxes. Most companies avoid taxes anyway, but having a high tax rate has a direct negative correlation in U.S. investment by large corporations. The worldwide corporate tax rate averages to 22%. The U.S. should not go above that if we want corporate investment.

If you raise taxes, you do it on individuals and not businesses. The top 1% already pay roughly 1/3 in federal income tax (the top 1 percent includes about 1.13 million households earning an average income of $2.1 million.). The 2-5% pay 1/4 in federal income tax. How much do you think you can increase that rate until these people start moving their future income producing activities out of this country (or stop working)? If you increase capital gains, the ultra rich will stop cashing out any of their investments, which will continue to make them even wealthier.

 

[JazzGal]

Limiting federal jobs may be the only thing Trump has done that I fully agree with. I've mentioned this in other threads, and will state again that I worked for the Federal Government in DC, and I was shocked at the misappropriation of funds, and the number of federal employees that literally did nothing. I was working right after Obama became President. Due to all the hiring freezes, our department anticipated future freezes and pre-hired above our need. My division had four people that had literally nothing to do. Not to mention getting new carpet, etc., every year, because your next fiscal years budget will not exceed your current years spending (e.g. if your budget for FY 18 is $3MM, but you spend only $2.8MM, your next years budget will be $2.8MM-creating an incentive to overspend). I'd also like to see the slow tapering of the size of our military. We should become more efficient as a country. Too much waste. I agree that the golf costs are ridiculous, but any days Trump is out of the Oval Office/not working is good for the county.

I have no issues with tax reform. Our government collects plenty in tax. It is the overspending/inefficiencies and misuse of funds that I have an issue with. This is a purely apolitical statement, it doesn't matter who is in office. Two sides of the same coin. I truly hate liberal and conservative politicians equally. Both love trashing and vilifying each other (democrats are socialists, the Muslim Kenyan is going to destroy the country, and; republicans are racists backwater hillbillies, Trump is Hitler, etc.). I see this same **** on this forum everyday. And when forum members post **** like this they are part of the problem. Easy to point the finger and lay blame on each other rather than taking responsibility for our mistakes and making improvements. Easy to get comfortable and pander to your lobbyists that will keep you in office instead of serving your constituents. Too easy to come up with your pet projects that may have some good benefit on a micro level without looking at the good of the country as a whole. Too easy to pass the buck to the next generation continue growing the national debt that will soon have more interest than the taxes the government collects in a year. Our ancestors put us in this position, and we continue to pass the buck and blame everyone else for our issues. And unfortunately, the media does too good of a job highlighting and perpetuating (and sometimes even creating) these stereotypes as it helps with the ratings.

I have no problem with federal hiring freezes either. There is no question that the whole federal employment system needs tightening up. But refusing to pay annual cost-of-living increases is not fair to middle class workers because their higher-ups can't figure out how to spend less and waste ridiculous amounts of money.

I'm still not seeing how my $20 extra from the tax cuts has changed my life.

 

[Zombie]

The 1% own how much of the wealth again? Oh nearly 40% you say, let me break out my tiny violin for their poor overtaxed souls.

Im not sure it's a 'fact' that the tax cut has improved the economy in any way appreciable to working and middle class people. Wages have remained as stagnant as ever.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

I have no problem with federal hiring freezes either. There is no question that the whole federal employment system needs tightening up. But refusing to pay annual cost-of-living increases is not fair to middle class workers because their higher-ups can't figure out how to spend less and waste ridiculous amounts of money.

I'm still not seeing how my $20 extra from the tax cuts has changed my life.

Throwing around middle class is inaccurate. You're describing a change in where funding goes, specifically to benefit one segment of the population at the expense to others (those benefiting from what you see as wasteful).

That's not an argument against your sentiment so don't read it that way.

 

[fishonjazz]

The 1% own how much of the wealth again? Oh nearly 40% you say, let me break out my tiny violin for their poor overtaxed souls.

Im not sure it's a 'fact' that the tax cut has improved the economy in any way appreciable to working and middle class people. Wages have remained as stagnant as ever.

This

 

[The Thriller]

...

 

[JAZZGASM]

The 1% own how much of the wealth again? Oh nearly 40% you say, let me break out my tiny violin for their poor overtaxed souls.

Im not sure it's a 'fact' that the tax cut has improved the economy in any way appreciable to working and middle class people. Wages have remained as stagnant as ever.

As I said, the cuts should have helped the 95% more. I don't care about the 1%. We can thank lobbyists for the actual breakdown of % savings between the 5% and the rest. Even Hillary stated the rich should be taxed more, but time and time again refused to answer how it would be done. She didn't want to alienate supporters. It is why I hate politicians.

We have seen an appreciable increase in overall taxes collected, even more than predicted. More than has ever been collected. Do you think we need to collect more?

And while I have no sympathy for the top 6%, I feel like they are carrying their weight :

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/

Both in amount and %, the top 5% are paying 60% of all income tax at nearly a 24% tax rate. The bottom 50% pay about 4%. Reducing the % paid by the middle class should have been done (largest burden to income ratio) but no politicians seem to have that on their agenda.

 

[The Thriller]

The 1% own how much of the wealth again? Oh nearly 40% you say, let me break out my tiny violin for their poor overtaxed souls.

Im not sure it's a 'fact' that the tax cut has improved the economy in any way appreciable to working and middle class people. Wages have remained as stagnant as ever.

If increasing the deficit and limiting our ability to respond to the next recession, inlsrging the wealth inequality gap, and “sparking” wages to remain flat or decline, and giving “poor” millionsuees stock buybacks is good for the economy, then the massive tax handout to the rich has been a resounding success!

I’m sure the working class is so tired from all of this “winning.”

Paul Ryan summed it up the best:

 

[The Thriller]

As I said, the cuts should have helped the 95% more. I don't care about the 1%. We can thank lobbyists for the actual breakdown of % savings between the 5% and the rest. Even Hillary stated the rich should be taxed more, but time and time again refused to answer how it would be done. She didn't want to alienate supporters. It is why I hate politicians.

We have seen an appreciable increase in overall taxes collected, even more than predicted. More than has ever been collected. Do you think we need to collect more?

And while I have no sympathy for the top 6%, I feel like they are carrying their weight :

https://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2016-update/

Both in amount and %, the top 5% are paying 60% of all income tax at nearly a 24% tax rate. The bottom 50% pay about 4%. Reducing the % paid by the middle class should have been done (largest burden to income ratio) but no politicians seem to have that on their agenda.

This is the problem with conservatives today. Just because they think something is true (alt facts) doesn’t mean that it is. Hillary clinton didn’t explain how she’d tax the wealthy? That’s interesting cuz a simple google search provided me with:

She's renewing President Obama's call for the so-called Buffett rule — that is, a minimum tax rate of 30 percent for anyone making over a million dollars a year — as well as an extra 4 percent tax on incomes over $5 million. Like Obama, she also proposes limiting tax deductions for the very wealthy, to ensure they pay what she calls their "fair share"

Trump wants to eliminate the "estate tax," which applies to inherited wealth, and which Republicans typically disparage as the "death tax." Clinton, on the other hand, would increase the estate tax rate — from 40 percent to 45 percent — and lower the threshold at which it kicks in, from $5.45 million (or $10.9 million for couples) to $3.5 million (and $7 million for couples).

 

[Rubashov]

If increasing the deficit and limiting our ability to respond to the next recession, inlsrging the wealth inequality gap, and “sparking” wages to remain flat or decline, and giving “poor” millionsuees stock buybacks is good for the economy, then the massive tax handout to the rich has been a resounding success!

I’m sure the working class is so tired from all of this “winning.”

Paul Ryan summed it up the best:

I'm a public sector worker, over the last ten years the cost of parking at my work has increased by 1500p/a my wages have increased by slightly less in that time. if i didn't have outside sources of income i'd be screwed or a least working in another job, its a joke. The worst bit is the excuses that management trawl out for this nonsense, the best one for a near 50 percent increase in the cost of parking was to encourage staff to take public transport to improve our green footprint. Makes perfect sense if you live in the city and can walk or grab a tram and be at work in 10 minutes, at the time i was living in one of Melbourne's high crime suburbs, catching the train to a night shift was dangerous for me and i'm 6'2 280 pounds, let alone an immigrant cleaner or kitchen hand. That is i think the perfect example of the liberal elite, tell all the right lies, then act exactly like the Tories and pretend to claim the moral high ground.