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Tugged at the heartstrings...sorry no racist cops...

[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];908539 said:
Irresponsible to leave two children to maybe bore another. Only question should be what color coat hanger to do the honors with.
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[size/HUGE] boobs [/size];908691 said:
She chose to die and left two children without a care giver. You call that not irresponsible moron? Try explaining that to Jesus.
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How do you know that she left them without a care giver? Maybe she spent the last few months of her life making arrangements for others to take her place. There is a very good chance that these children will be raised in a loving environment, even though their birth mother is not there. And how could she have known that not killing the baby would definitely lead to her death, anyway? And BTW, the hanger comment makes me want to barf.
 
heyhey said:
Why do some people that are pro-choice choose to shame women that decide against abortion? It's bizarre.

Ya can't spell pro-choice without choice.
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Agreed. My wife has said more than once she would have made the same decision, and even though I would have hated losing her, I would have supported her choice.
 
One Brow said:
Agreed. My wife has said more than once she would have made the same decision, and even though I would have hated losing her, I would have supported her choice.
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Just curious, but how is this different than a suicide decision, minus the child obviously?
 
LogGrad98 said:
Just curious, but how is this different than a suicide decision, minus the child obviously?
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One Brow said:
You, like donating your heart to your child while you are still alive? Not much different.
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Huh?


At any rate, Log, I think one big difference is that in suicide you are actively taking your own life, whereas in this situation you are letting nature take its course

I know in my neighbor's situation, her doctors could not predict how the pregnancy would effect her cancer. I think there was some thought that perhaps it would spread more slowly due to increases in some parts of the immune system - - of course, that was over 10 years ago too, and I suppose more is known now than was known then.
 
moevillini said:
Huh?


At any rate, Log, I think one big difference is that in suicide you are actively taking your own life, whereas in this situation you are letting nature take its course

I know in my neighbor's situation, her doctors could not predict how the pregnancy would effect her cancer. I think there was some thought that perhaps it would spread more slowly due to increases in some parts of the immune system - - of course, that was over 10 years ago too, and I suppose more is known now than was known then.
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Good point moe. I was thinking along the lines of this particular scenario gives this person the right to make a decision regarding her own life, but if someone feels their life is meaningless they don't have the same right. As far as nature taking its course, I could stand on a train track and let nature take its course as well. To me it is more the idea that certain circumstances make the person a hero or a coward for essentially making the same choice.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Good point moe. I was thinking along the lines of this particular scenario gives this person the right to make a decision regarding her own life, but if someone feels their life is meaningless they don't have the same right. As far as nature taking its course, I could stand on a train track and let nature take its course as well. To me it is more the idea that certain circumstances make the person a hero or a coward for essentially making the same choice.
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Context is everything. Shooting another person with a gun can result in the same dichotomy, as can almost anything else.
 
One Brow said:
Agreed. My wife has said more than once she would have made the same decision, and even though I would have hated losing her, I would have supported her choice.
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In this exact scenario you make it sound like it is only your wife's decision. That only she has any input in making that decision.

I disagree. You, and any children you've had, have a place in making that decision, imo.
 
One Brow said:
Agreed. My wife has said more than once she would have made the same decision, and even though I would have hated losing her, I would have supported her choice.
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To add on to my previous post, this is how I imagine I would be too. That is, I'd fight her tooth and nail, do everything in my (considerable) power to persuade her to choose to live, but in the end, I'd support her decision.

Hack said:
Very sad.

It's honorable thing the mother did. I have much respect for her. Her true colors shone through and they are beautiful.

It's amazing how this woman made this choice and then their are others who will terminate a pregnancy just because it makes their life easier. The two are just so far apart.

Abortions should be very rare. This is one of the few times that it should be even remotely acceptable, and she still chose not to do it.

I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that so many abortions occur every year, and that how so many fight so hard for the right to abortion. It should make anyone cringe.
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People don't fight for abortion so the crack whore on the corner can go terminate her baby every other month. I think the vast majority support it due to circumstances like this, cases of rape, incest, etc. I think you'll find that most pro-choice advocates find the idea of abortion abhorrent, me included.

Stoked said:
In this exact scenario you make it sound like it is only your wife's decision. That only she has any input in making that decision.

I disagree. You, and any children you've had, have a place in making that decision, imo.
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Agreed 100%, but that doesn't mean that the woman doesn't have the majority of the decision. Technically,she has 100%, but find it hard to think of a scenario where a woman would make it 100% her decision.
 
Stoked said:
In this exact scenario you make it sound like it is only your wife's decision. That only she has any input in making that decision.

I disagree. You, and any children you've had, have a place in making that decision, imo.
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No, we don't. We express how we feel about it (have input), but we have no place in making the decision.
 
One Brow said:
No, we don't. We express how we feel about it (have input), but we have no place in making the decision.
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I completely disagree. Each of you, especially and minor children have a huge stake in this. In this exact scenario it isn't just her that is affected. She is choosing for you to lose a spouse and for your kids to lose a mother.

So you may deny that the kids and husband have a right to make this decision with her But i certainly don't.

It's not like this is some college student who isn't married and doesn't have kids. I'm socially pro choice but laying it all on the woman in this scenario is a disservice to her, the kids and the husband.
 
Stoked said:
I completely disagree. Each of you, especially and minor children have a huge stake in this. In this exact scenario it isn't just her that is affected. She is choosing for you to lose a spouse and for your kids to lose a mother.

So you may deny that the kids and husband have a right to make this decision with her But i certainly don't.

It's not like this is some college student who isn't married and doesn't have kids. I'm socially pro choice but laying it all on the woman in this scenario is a disservice to her, the kids and the husband.
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This is exactly the thought process that brought me from this topic to suicide. Shouldn't having the right to decide about my body include whether my body continues to live or not?
 
LogGrad98 said:
This is exactly the thought process that brought me from this topic to suicide. Shouldn't having the right to decide about my body include whether my body continues to live or not?
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I think that's it's quite possible to make a decision, in a rational frame of mind, to carry a child even if it will kill you. The circumstances where suicide is made in a rational frame of mind are much, much trickier. So, while the right to decide what to do with your own body is important, there is also the duty on the rest of us to make sure that you're not suffering from some temporary depression. I'm not a big fan of suttee, for example.
 
One Brow said:
I think that's it's quite possible to make a decision, in a rational frame of mind, to carry a child even if it will kill you. The circumstances where suicide is made in a rational frame of mind are much, much trickier. So, while the right to decide what to do with your own body is important, there is also the duty on the rest of us to make sure that you're not suffering from some temporary depression. I'm not a big fan of suttee, for example.
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So should the same standard apply to any time someone is making a decision about their body? Abortion is a very difficult decision, should we make sure women are competent to make that decision before they are allowed to abort the baby? How do we know they are not so distraught as to not in a rational frame of mind? Or women who choose to carry the baby instead of aborting it and then die later, how do we know they are not suffering from some temporary depression?
 
LogGrad98 said:
So should the same standard apply to any time someone is making a decision about their body?
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I think tattoo parlors should have a policy that their clients be sober, for example.

What you said is valid. I don't think I phrased my arguments in absolutes, so I don't see what you said as disagreeing with what I said.
 
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