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Uncle Toms

Beantown

Well-Known Member
So according to Jalen Rose an African American is "less black" if they have two parents and were middle class. Which is the term used as "uncle Tom". So Jalen Rose is making fun of Grant Hill because he had both parents and they were educated...........I'm sorry but that is freaking lame. Jalen is an adult and if this how he thinks African Americans should think then that is pathetic.
 
So according to Jalen Rose an African American is "less black" if they have two parents and were middle class. Which is the term used as "uncle Tom". So Jalen Rose is making fun of Grant Hill because he had both parents and they were educated...........I'm sorry but that is freaking lame. Jalen is an adult and if this how he thinks African Americans should think then that is pathetic.

I think the record is somewhat unclear on this point. It's possible that Jalen was talking about the way he felt when he was 18 rather than the way he feels now. Jimmy King has already clarified to say as much.

Grant Hill's article in the Times was a further display that he's one of the league's most thoughtful guys, but you shouldn't be so quick to fully adopt his interpretation of events.
 
In the 70s (and also the 80s, if I'm not mistaken), many of the younger people believed that economic advancement outside the neighborhood meant "selling out". Considering the quote I saw also said Rose was jealous of Hill's knowing his parents at the time, I don't think he was making fun of it. It read a lot like bitterness/sour grapes to me.
 
Rose is claiming it was his thought when he was a teenager. That's fine, but I wonder how Chris Webber feels about Rose saying that Duke only recruited Uncle Toms, because Duke recruited him pretty hard. As I recall, Webber chose Michigan at the last moment but almost went to Duke.
 
Rose is claiming it was his thought when he was a teenager. That's fine, but I wonder how Chris Webber feels about Rose saying that Duke only recruited Uncle Toms, because Duke recruited him pretty hard. As I recall, Webber chose Michigan at the last moment but almost went to Duke.

I'm pretty sure that was Uncle Ed's doing.
 
Rose is claiming it was his thought when he was a teenager. That's fine, but I wonder how Chris Webber feels about Rose saying that Duke only recruited Uncle Toms, because Duke recruited him pretty hard. As I recall, Webber chose Michigan at the last moment but almost went to Duke.

I'm pretty sure Chris Webber grew up knowing both of his parents in a middle class household. So by Rose's definition, Webber would have been an uncle tom too.
 
I'm pretty sure Chris Webber grew up knowing both of his parents in a middle class household. So by Rose's definition, Webber would have been an uncle tom too.

Don't remember which part, but I do recall they mention this in the documentary. Chris Webber being an "uncle tom" yet trying to apart of the street culture.
 
Don't remember which part, but I do recall they mention this in the documentary. Chris Webber being an "uncle tom" yet trying to apart of the street culture.

What is this documentary? This is the first I have heard about any of this.

It's such crap. Anyone trying to fit a stereotype is destined to fail.
 
I'm pretty sure Chris Webber grew up knowing both of his parents in a middle class household. So by Rose's definition, Webber would have been an uncle tom too.

Ok, let's squash this one. That is Grant Hill's interpretation of what Jalen Rose meant. That is NOT what Jalen Rose said.

Jalen Rose said:
"Schools like Duke didn't recruit players like me. I felt that they only recruited black players that were Uncle Toms. ... I was jealous of Grant Hill. He came from a great black family. Congratulations. Your mom went to college and was roommates with Hillary Clinton. Your dad played in the NFL as a very well-spoken and successful man. I was upset and bitter that my mom had to bust her hump for 20-plus years. I was bitter that I had a professional athlete that was my father that I didn't know. I resented that, moreso than I resented him. I looked at it as they are who the world accepts and we are who the world hates."

There's an element of class distinction in what Rose is saying but it's not about the middle class at all.

How many "middle class" families do you know that feature one parent who is a four-time All Pro Running Back in the NFL who went to Yale and was frat brothers with George W. Bush and another parent who is a former roommate of a first lady/Senator/Secretary of State? Are you saying it's totally unreasonable to believe a child of that family might have a privileged upbringing?

Resenting some people who seem to have it all is hardly atypical; it's pretty normal. One of my former college roommates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, went to Harvard law school, and is currently employed as a staff attorney by the NBA Players Association. I'm jealous as hell. And frankly who hasn't been jealous of people that they believe had opportunities and results that they never could have had access to.

Framing Rose's comments as being one of middle class resentment or two-parent household resentment is a little off. Hill's family was a lot closer to the "elite" than they were to being average schmoes.

There's probably also an element of truth to the class argument being made here. The players named in that segment of the documentary were Hill, Laettner and Hurley. First of all, you'll note that only one of the three players listed is black and that player is Hill. Bobby Hurley is basketball royalty, son of one of the most famous coaches ever. Laettner was a media golden boy during that period of time. It's a little understandable that young upstarts would invent reasons why these guys would be the villains of their personal narrative and view class as one of the dividing lenses separating them from one another.

Uncle Tom is an unfortunate term, but the internet lynch mob (to use my own racially loaded term) is being pretty hasty here given the ambiguity of the time-frame of the thought, the cut immediately following that statement, and the total rush to adopt everything about the wronged party's interpretation of the statement that may or may not be totally reasonable.

EDIT: I think Rose's clarification speaks for itself.

https://www.sportsgrid.com/media/ja...-this-duke-recruits-a-certain-type-of-player/

It's pretty explicitly about class. He says he thinks Coach K would recruit his kids and points out that Webber went to the exact same high school as Shane Battier.
 
Was that quote you used of Jalen Rose from the documentary or stuff written/said apart from it?

I copy-pasted from a Truehoop post but I watched the accompanying video and verified that it was accurate. The elipses represent a cut away from Rose where they collected comments from other players.

Also LOL at Skip Bayless being a voice of tolerance and restraint.
 
So according to Jalen Rose an African American is "less black" if they have two parents and were middle class. Which is the term used as "uncle Tom". So Jalen Rose is making fun of Grant Hill because he had both parents and they were educated...........I'm sorry but that is freaking lame. Jalen is an adult and if this how he thinks African Americans should think then that is pathetic.
I would promise to quit the board, if you could tell me (without googling) where the term "Uncle Tom" originated.
 
What is this documentary? This is the first I have heard about any of this.

It's such crap. Anyone trying to fit a stereotype is destined to fail.

I think they're referring to the Fab Five documentary...

But I'll admit to being pretty clueless about the specific references


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 
Ok, let's squash this one. That is Grant Hill's interpretation of what Jalen Rose meant. That is NOT what Jalen Rose said.



There's an element of class distinction in what Rose is saying but it's not about the middle class at all.

How many "middle class" families do you know that feature one parent who is a four-time All Pro Running Back in the NFL who went to Yale and was frat brothers with George W. Bush and another parent who is a former roommate of a first lady/Senator/Secretary of State? Are you saying it's totally unreasonable to believe a child of that family might have a privileged upbringing?

Resenting some people who seem to have it all is hardly atypical; it's pretty normal. One of my former college roommates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, went to Harvard law school, and is currently employed as a staff attorney by the NBA Players Association. I'm jealous as hell. And frankly who hasn't been jealous of people that they believe had opportunities and results that they never could have had access to.

Framing Rose's comments as being one of middle class resentment or two-parent household resentment is a little off. Hill's family was a lot closer to the "elite" than they were to being average schmoes.

There's probably also an element of truth to the class argument being made here. The players named in that segment of the documentary were Hill, Laettner and Hurley. First of all, you'll note that only one of the three players listed is black and that player is Hill. Bobby Hurley is basketball royalty, son of one of the most famous coaches ever. Laettner was a media golden boy during that period of time. It's a little understandable that young upstarts would invent reasons why these guys would be the villains of their personal narrative and view class as one of the dividing lenses separating them from one another.

Uncle Tom is an unfortunate term, but the internet lynch mob (to use my own racially loaded term) is being pretty hasty here given the ambiguity of the time-frame of the thought, the cut immediately following that statement, and the total rush to adopt everything about the wronged party's interpretation of the statement that may or may not be totally reasonable.

EDIT: I think Rose's clarification speaks for itself.

https://www.sportsgrid.com/media/ja...-this-duke-recruits-a-certain-type-of-player/

It's pretty explicitly about class. He says he thinks Coach K would recruit his kids and points out that Webber went to the exact same high school as Shane Battier.

I take no exception with Rose's statements. Not bad. Not bad at all.
 
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