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Utah = Battle Ground State. Does that change your vote?

BabyPeterzz said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lection/?postshare=3451469726595868&tid=ss_fb

Now that Utah is up in the air, a 3rd party vote in essence is a vote for Trump.

So knowing your vote actually makes a difference this election, how does this influence your vote?
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Actually no it is not a vote for him. Utah being up in the air directly hurts Trump far more than it helps him. Him losing the state to anyone, even a third party candidate, narrows his path to victory and strengthens Hillary.

If anything this encourages 3rd party voting.
 
If it's close I'm voting for whoever has the best chance to beat Trump.
 
Stoked said:
Actually no it is not a vote for him. Utah being up in the air directly hurts Trump far more than it helps him. Him losing the state to anyone, even a third party candidate, narrows his path to victory and strengthens Hillary.

If anything this encourages 3rd party voting.
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Interesting take. I agree any vote against Trump hurts him obviously. But since there is no way a 3rd party wins the state, and Hilary is the only viable candidate to defeat Trump, a vote 3rd party reduces her chances of taking the state and defeating him nationally. In addition, Utah still leans R, while 3rd party votes by R's hurts Trump, those vote would be more effective going to Hilary and adding assurance to Trumps defeat.

This speaks to my issue with 3rd party voting during the general election. This idealistic approach to candidates and the election is so short sighted and dangerous. See the 2000 election when Nader steered votes from Gore and basically ushering in the disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush. That vote set the country, and the world, back decades. If we have the chance to avoid a Trump presidency, you do it and don't look back. Those who refuse to believe this fact are naive, egotistical, stubborn, deluded, racist, or just stupid.
 
Hillary has the best chance at defeating Trump, so she gets my vote.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Interesting take. I agree any vote against Trump hurts him obviously. But since there is no way a 3rd party wins the state, and Hilary is the only viable candidate to defeat Trump, a vote 3rd party reduces her chances of taking the state and defeating him nationally. In addition, Utah still leans R, while 3rd party votes by R's hurts Trump, those vote would be more effective going to Hilary and adding assurance to Trumps defeat.

This speaks to my issue with 3rd party voting during the general election. This idealistic approach to candidates and the election is so short sighted and dangerous. See the 2000 election when Nader steered votes from Gore and basically ushering in the disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush. That vote set the country, and the world, back decades. If we have the chance to avoid a Trump presidency, you do it and don't look back. Those who refuse to believe this fact are naive, egotistical, stubborn, deluded, racist, or just stupid.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree. I will be able to explain why in about an hour.
 
Stoked said:
I strongly disagree. I will be able to explain why in about an hour.
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I was logging in to say how babyweeners has stirred the **** pot containing all you two-party-is-broken pop culture junkies but stoked beat me to the starting line. Save your response as most of us could write it for you.


BabyPeterzz said:
Interesting take. I agree any vote against Trump hurts him obviously. But since there is no way a 3rd party wins the state, and Hilary is the only viable candidate to defeat Trump, a vote 3rd party reduces her chances of taking the state and defeating him nationally. In addition, Utah still leans R, while 3rd party votes by R's hurts Trump, those vote would be more effective going to Hilary and adding assurance to Trumps defeat.

This speaks to my issue with 3rd party voting during the general election. This idealistic approach to candidates and the election is so short sighted and dangerous. See the 2000 election when Nader steered votes from Gore and basically ushering in the disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush. That vote set the country, and the world, back decades. If we have the chance to avoid a Trump presidency, you do it and don't look back. Those who refuse to believe this fact are naive, egotistical, stubborn, deluded, racist, or just stupid.
Click to expand...

Eh, the only thing wrong with Bush's presidency was engaging in a war he could not win. It was still a noble cause and I can forgive him for that. GWB is a good man. I've stated similar sentiment about H. Clinton acting the way she has with that GOP target on her back. Have we ever seen any political figure under as much scrutiny as H.C.? Where are the Republicans screaming foul like they did when Democrat XYZ allegedly sicked the IRS on political opponents? What Paul Ryan did to her over Benhhazi is no different.

We really haven't had a failed presidency for over a very long time. Trump won't be a failure. He would likely be a colossal disaster. Hillary, on the other hand, will be the moderating leader of what is America's political process. I don't fear her in the least.
 
franklin said:
I was logging in to say how babyweeners has stirred the **** pot containing all you two-party-is-broken pop culture junkies but stoked beat me to the starting line. Save your response as most of us could write it for you.




Eh, the only thing wrong with Bush's presidency was engaging in a war he could not win. It was still a noble cause and I can forgive him for that. GWB is a good man. I've stated similar sentiment about H. Clinton acting the way she has with that GOP target on her back. Have we ever seen any political figure under as much scrutiny as H.C.? Where are the Republicans screaming foul like they did when Democrat XYZ allegedly sicked the IRS on political opponents? What Paul Ryan did to her over Benhhazi is no different.
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Bitch, please. You forget what Bush left Obama in 2008, and his foreign policy staged what we're dealing with now. Roads are paved blah blah blah. The dude's a war criminal in my eyes. But whatevs, he's funny.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Bitch, please. You forget what Bush left Obama in 2008,
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I'm assuming you mean the Great Recession and wouldn't think you the type to blame that on a president. Regardless, Bush tried to stop it and out-of-power Dems blocked his path the same as Obama trying to cure the GR and out-of-power repubs blocking his path with the shutdown, etc.


BabyPeterzz said:
and his foreign policy staged what we're dealing with now. Roads are paved blah blah blah. The dude's a war criminal in my eyes. But whatevs, he's funny.
Click to expand...

I don't agree in the least. We could have pulled out at any time in the last 30 years and things wouldn't be any different, if not worse. I'm not into nation building but this whole conservative isolationist stance is nonsense. It's not the 19th century anymore. We have to do something but nobody knows what that something is.

I'll start listening to the isolationists when they explain away their conscience on human rights violations and massacres of millions of people. Isolationists = Trumpians
 
franklin said:
I was logging in to say how babyweeners has stirred the **** pot containing all you two-party-is-broken pop culture junkies but stoked beat me to the starting line. Save your response as most of us could write it for you.




Eh, the only thing wrong with Bush's presidency was engaging in a war he could not win. It was still a noble cause and I can forgive him for that. GWB is a good man. I've stated similar sentiment about H. Clinton acting the way she has with that GOP target on her back. Have we ever seen any political figure under as much scrutiny as H.C.? Where are the Republicans screaming foul like they did when Democrat XYZ allegedly sicked the IRS on political opponents? What Paul Ryan did to her over Benhhazi is no different.

We really haven't had a failed presidency for over a very long time. Trump won't be a failure. He would likely be a colossal disaster. Hillary, on the other hand, will be the moderating leader of what is America's political process. I don't fear her in the least.
Click to expand...


Nice post. But I think Hillary deserves the scrutiny she is getting. I'm willing to somewhat overlook cozying up to banks and big business since every President has done that, but to me her laziness with the e-mails tells me that she thinks she can get away with pretty much anything. But I don't actually fear her.

Bush was a failed Presidency though. The Iraq war alone guarantees that. And then you add in the 2008 collapse...

And I'm with you on Trump. If he becomes our President new words will be invented to define the, as you put it, "colossal disaster", that would ensue.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Interesting take. I agree any vote against Trump hurts him obviously. But since there is no way a 3rd party wins the state, and Hilary is the only viable candidate to defeat Trump, a vote 3rd party reduces her chances of taking the state and defeating him nationally. In addition, Utah still leans R, while 3rd party votes by R's hurts Trump, those vote would be more effective going to Hilary and adding assurance to Trumps defeat.

This speaks to my issue with 3rd party voting during the general election. This idealistic approach to candidates and the election is so short sighted and dangerous. See the 2000 election when Nader steered votes from Gore and basically ushering in the disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush. That vote set the country, and the world, back decades. If we have the chance to avoid a Trump presidency, you do it and don't look back. Those who refuse to believe this fact are naive, egotistical, stubborn, deluded, racist, or just stupid.
Click to expand...

Heh.
 
I understand why people call Clinton a liar. So I am not looking for you anecdotal evidence of how or why you think she is a liar. Does anyone have a non-biased chart or graph showing the candidates statements during this campaign truthfulness? I have seen some floating around but havent seen if they are from decent choices. I went to a few of the fact checker websites and couldn't find comparisons. From what I have seen so far Clinton has been the most honest in her campaign statements with Bernie a somewhat close second and Trump waaayyyy behind.
 
BabyPeterzz said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lection/?postshare=3451469726595868&tid=ss_fb

Now that Utah is up in the air, a 3rd party vote in essence is a vote for Trump.

So knowing your vote actually makes a difference this election, how does this influence your vote?
Click to expand...

Not at all.

But you're laboring under a false impression. As I pointed out in another thread, there is no possible way your individual vote makes any sort of difference. It's a statistical impossibility with numbers this large. In a vote with a couple of hundred people? Sure, one person might actually change the results of the election. But with a couple of million? No chance at all.
 
franklin said:
I'm assuming you mean the Great Recession and wouldn't think you the type to blame that on a president. Regardless, Bush tried to stop it and out-of-power Dems blocked his path the same as Obama trying to cure the GR and out-of-power repubs blocking his path with the shutdown, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah? The surge aka bailout. Yeah, genius Dutch boy solution. He panicked and left a mess. I'll concede that it wasn't all his fault, but the moron didn't do anything to help. Thinking strategic ain't his strong suit.




don't agree in the least. We could have pulled out at any time in the last 30 years and things wouldn't be any different, if not worse. I'm not into nation building but this whole conservative isolationist stance is nonsense. It's not the 19th century anymore. We have to do something but nobody knows what that something is.

I'll start listening to the isolationists when they explain away their conscience on human rights violations and massacres of millions of people. Isolationists = Trumpians
Click to expand...

Not being ****ing stupid and engaging in a massive offensive mistake resulting in hundreds of thousands of losses does not equal isolationism. Sure, he had the correct general idea, but his execution was criminal. Narrow your view of what is right and good, dude.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BabyPeterzz said:
Oh yeah? The surge aka bailout. Yeah, genius Dutch boy solution. He panicked and left a mess. I'll concede that it wasn't all his fault, but the moron didn't do anything to help. Thinking strategic ain't his strong suit.






Not being ****ing stupid and engaging in a massive offensive mistake resulting in hundreds of thousands of losses does not equal isolationism. Sure, he had the correct general idea, but his execution was criminal. Narrow your view of what is right and good, dude.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Don't give the President(any president) credit for the collective action of over 300 million people.

The boomers created the strong economy in the nineties, the distorted economy in the 2000's, and they also created the great recession. The millenials are slowly but surely pulling us out of that downturn. When they are in their prime working/consuming years the economy will be booming again. They will go through their mid life crisis, distort the economy, and ultimately cause a crash just like the boomers did.
 
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