Utah = Battle Ground State. Does that change your vote?

[moevillini]

Your first sentence is spot on.

The rest? I don't think people hater her for being a woman as much as for all the stench that the GOP has covered her with for two decades now. She has been a main target of the GOP for a long time and it's working well for them.

Was anyone reading the Wall Street Journal back in the 1990's when they had their 6 volume "exposé" of the Whitewater dealings the Clinton's had been involved with? Boy, they absolutely HATED the Clintons. I pretty much quit reading their opinion pages then. They haven't had a good thing to say about any President since Reagan.

 

[LoPo]

Hillary is corrupt, a robot and gives me zero confidence going forward. Doesn't mean I'm voting for Trump, but hell no to Hillary.

Sent from my VS980 4G using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[babe]

It would be interesting to see how Utah would vote if Mitt Romney endorses Johnson. They followed him in a big way when he endorsed Cruz. I think a lot of Utahns would jump at the chance at another alternative to Trump if they thought it had any chance of working. I don't believe Clinton has a shot in Utah, even if Trump does shoot someone in Times Square.

I think 1% of Utah's voters are groupie enough to vote the way Mitt tells them. They wouldn't follow Thomas Monson, either.

Mormons hate mud-slingers, too. Mitt being a Dump-Trumper looks like mud-slinging. Utah Mormons are declining. A lot of non-Mo immigrants are refugees from California who hate dems, and born-again Christians who hate mos and dems. even Mexicans are Republicans here. Mostly folks who work hard for what they have. The dems are lawyers, gays, college professors, and public "servants". Oh, all the bad boys/college students on the revolutionary ride. The Hillary vote is all dem, and has no upside possibilities. She will drop another 5 points as the Libertarians move up. Trump will keep his numbers, they are solid because as many as go Libertarian will be made up by people who just gag on HIllary, dems included/ 43-35-20-2.

 

[babe]

Was anyone reading the Wall Street Journal back in the 1990's when they had their 6 volume "exposé" of the Whitewater dealings the Clinton's had been involved with? Boy, they absolutely HATED the Clintons. I pretty much quit reading their opinion pages then. They haven't had a good thing to say about any President since Reagan.

I read it all, and was disgusted with Hillary because for once the WSJ told the truth about a David Rockefeller asset.

 

[Miggs]

Was anyone reading the Wall Street Journal back in the 1990's when they had their 6 volume "exposé" of the Whitewater dealings the Clinton's had been involved with? Boy, they absolutely HATED the Clintons. I pretty much quit reading their opinion pages then. They haven't had a good thing to say about any President since Reagan.

A woman (I think?) did an exposé on the CIA/drug trafficking years ago too that three Presidents not only knew about but helped keep going in essence, mostly through Mena, Arkansas (with the help of pilot Barry Seal) where Clinton was governor before being President. You can find some of it online. I wanna say the Post decided not to run it or she was fired for it or something. Pretty crazy stuff. Tom Cruise is playing Seal in a movie about it--it being loosely used. It's filming now and I assume will be mediocre as Cruise hasn't made anything very good since Collateral which is 12 years now but I'm holding out hope.

 

[NAOS]

The baby boomers(and the forgotten generation) are categorized by a deviation in total births. Subsequent generations should also be categorized by their deviation but they will be less obvious until eventually the ripples dissipate or a new event causes a new wave.

Beyond that shared experiences do shape a group of people. We probably can find something worth examining based on say growing up during the aids epidemic, or in the age of terrorism, that I think generations will still be a valuable thing to discuss on some level.

I like how you paired technological development to the boomers. For me, it takes BOTH population deviations AND technological transformations before I start floating the word "generation." For example, I also think it's meaningful to speak about the 'video-electronic' generation (aka the millennials). I think the term is wildly over-used, so I understand where [MENTION=40]Siro[/MENTION] is coming from.

 

[NAOS]

Ok.

I also think that a Trump presidency would be a disaster. But I think that a Clinton one would as well. In different ways of course but still terrible. They are both bad enough, IMO, that it seems pointless to me to argue who is worse. So I disagree with the premise of Clinton being clearly superior to Trump. To me they are both "the enemy".

As for Utah. It is a reliably red state. So any time, money and effort that needs to be spent there will be spent by Trump not Clinton. That is less time and money Trump will spend in places like NV that Clinton does need. Johnson will be his challenger here and the majority of Johnson votes from Utah will come at Trumps expense. Clinton doesn't need Utah(at all), Trump does. This scenario hurts Trump far worse than Clinton.

This isn't FL or IA we are talking about. It's a state that has been safely red forever that has never stopped a D from winning by being red.

As for Johnson, I don't expect him to win. What I'm hoping for is a 15% in the polls his presence in stage for the debates. A chance at shocking the Rs and Ds. Into a shot across their bow that we are tired of **** policies, **** candidates and political games.

c'mon, bro.

If you can't make value-based distinctions between a Trump presidency and a Clinton presidency, and then judge them against one another, then you might as well retire from any form of political analysis. Today.

 

[NAOS]

I agree, but culture changes very quickly. Different cultural phenomena affect different groups of people in different ways. We're redefining a generation into a much smaller group, under a much more nuanced light. I have no problem with that, but it deviates greatly from the way the concept is typically used(gen x, gen y, millennials, greatest, etc).

Franco "Bifo" Berardi uses the concept of 'generation' pretty effectively in Precarious Rhapsody. I believe you can find a free PDF on the www.

fyi

 

[Stoked]

c'mon, bro.

If you can't make value-based distinctions between a Trump presidency and a Clinton presidency, and then judge them against one another, then you might as well retire from any form of political analysis. Today.

If you can't see that a certain point it stops mattering than you never should have gotten into political analysis in the first place.

I'll go on record saying Trump is worse But again after a certain point it becomes a pointless comparison.

 

[NAOS]

If you can't see that a certain point it stops mattering than you never should have gotten into political analysis in the first place.

I'll go on record saying Trump is worse But again after a certain point it becomes a pointless comparison.

Who says I don't see a point at which it stops mattering if x is worse than y? This is a blatant assumption on your point, and it's wrong. This election is nowhere near that point. H.C. is a corporate president very much in line with post-Reagan era. Acting like she's a point-of-no-return is ridiculous.

 

[♪alt13]

Trump is why the presidency needs to be neutered. The guy that could follow Trump is what is really scary. Someone that actually believes in all this racist nationalist crap.

Part of me wants Trump to win. Let him discredit himself. I'm kinda worried that that platform will grow more in opposition than it would if he was in office. Who takes the reigns of that movement in 4-8 years. What if we have another deeper recession?

 

[BabyPeterzz]

Trump is why the presidency needs to be neutered. The guy that could follow Trump is what is really scary. Someone that actually believes in all this racist nationalist crap.

Part of me wants Trump to win. Let him discredit himself. I'm kinda worried that that platform will grow more in opposition than it would if he was in office. Who takes the reigns of that movement in 4-8 years. What if we have another deeper recession?

Part of you wants him to win? Which part of you is it exactly? Let "let it burn part"? The part that gives zero ****s about ethnic and religious minorities that would feel the full brunt of a Trump presidency? Or maybe the part that obviously has no respect for women? Watch your mouth, cause words matter, dude.

It's hilarious that some are so willing to watch the world burn just to get the result they want. Funny, this is something someone here accused Libtards of; massive changes and complete overhaul no matter the cost. I guess they don't take into account the right wing nuts who want to see Jesus so bad they welcome the apocalypse. Herp ****ing derp.

Some conservatives have their heads so far up their own asses during this election its laughable.

 

[♪alt13]

Part of you wants him to win? Which part of you is it exactly? Let "let it burn part"? The part that gives zero ****s about ethnic and religious minorities that would feel the full brunt of a Trump presidency? Or maybe the part that obviously has no respect for women? Watch your mouth, cause words matter, dude.

It's hilarious that some are so willing to watch the world burn just to get the result they want. Funny, this is something someone here accused Libtards of; massive changes and complete overhaul no matter the cost. I guess they don't take into account the right wing nuts who want to see Jesus so bad they welcome the apocalypse. Herp ****ing derp.

Some conservatives have their heads so far up their own asses during this election its laughable.

You either didn't read my whole post or were too eager to respond to be able to properly process it. Read it again and get back to me.

Hint: What if Trump isn't as extreme as this is going to go? What if he is the calm before the storm?

 

[moevillini]

A woman (I think?) did an exposé on the CIA/drug trafficking years ago too that three Presidents not only knew about but helped keep going in essence, mostly through Mena, Arkansas (with the help of pilot Barry Seal) where Clinton was governor before being President. You can find some of it online. I wanna say the Post decided not to run it or she was fired for it or something. Pretty crazy stuff. Tom Cruise is playing Seal in a movie about it--it being loosely used. It's filming now and I assume will be mediocre as Cruise hasn't made anything very good since Collateral which is 12 years now but I'm holding out hope.

I think this probably has something to do with that BCCI banking scandal from the 90's or so - it was a bank founded by investors from the Middle East that also essentially functioned as a front for money laundering for the Middle Eastern governments and it had major connections to the Medellin Cartel. Somehow I feel there may have also been some connection to the Iran-Contra affair under Reagan in the 80's but I may be getting my scandals confused.

BCCI also set up a U.S. bank holding company but its connections to that bank were so convoluted that the principals in the American bank seemed to have no idea that some of the people connected to the American bank were also connected to BCCI. Somehow (I'd have to see if I can find the details) someone who had been an acquaintance of Bill Clinton's during his time as AR governor received funding from a bank that turned out to have some ties to people who were involved with BCCI.

My take on it all at the time was that because A is friends with B and B is friends with C and C has some friends with connections to a drug cartel, according to the Wall Street Journal, if you are "A" and your last name is Clinton and you're running for President of the United States, then through your connections to B and their connection to C, you have connections to a drug cartel, and therefore you are almost a criminal yourself and should not be President. And they wrote six volumes about this.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

You either didn't read my whole post or were too eager to respond to be able to properly process it. Read it again and get back to me.

Hint: What if Trump isn't as extreme as this is going to go? What if he is the calm before the storm?

I read it, and my post wasn't directed so much at you as it was to that particular statement and to those that post the same sentiment.

I would hope, and a H.C. win would confirm this trend, that Trump is actually a sign of the demise of the racist underbelly of the conservative right wing. Yes, they may bring an even worse candidate next election, but with demographic trends in the U.S., I can't help but feel that the increase in minority population will further diminish the party of the movement, aka scared white people, that get more and more radical each election season.

A Trump victory would only empower the those that think increased diversity in the U.S. is a bad thing. His policy would reflect that and only serve to keep the country as white as possible and keep them the majority. A Trump defeat will be way better, trust me.

PS. @alt13 sorry, reading my post did sound overly harsh towards you. not my intention.

 

[♪alt13]

I read it, and my post wasn't directed so much at you as it was to that particular statement and to those that post the same sentiment.

I would hope, and a H.C. win would confirm this trend, that Trump is actually a sign of the demise of the racist underbelly of the conservative right wing. Yes, they may bring an even worse candidate next election, but with demographic trends in the U.S., I can't help but feel that the increase in minority population will further diminish the party of the movement, aka scared white people, that get more and more radical each election season.

A Trump victory would only empower the those that think increased diversity in the U.S. is a bad thing. His policy would reflect that and only serve to keep the country as white as possible and keep them the majority. A Trump defeat will be way better, trust me.

PS. @alt13 sorry, reading my post did sound overly harsh towards you. not my intention.

Yeah there is a racist underbelly in the gop but that isn't the whole story. Trump had a hard time in closed republican primaries. Where he really won the nomination is with the non-republican vote. Independents and democrats that bought into his nationalist platform. Trump didn't create this he unlocked what was already there. The optimistic side of me is shocked and is certain it will be over soon. The pessimistic side of me is scared ****less that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Gameface]

I read it, and my post wasn't directed so much at you as it was to that particular statement and to those that post the same sentiment.

I would hope, and a H.C. win would confirm this trend, that Trump is actually a sign of the demise of the racist underbelly of the conservative right wing. Yes, they may bring an even worse candidate next election, but with demographic trends in the U.S., I can't help but feel that the increase in minority population will further diminish the party of the movement, aka scared white people, that get more and more radical each election season.

A Trump victory would only empower the those that think increased diversity in the U.S. is a bad thing. His policy would reflect that and only serve to keep the country as white as possible and keep them the majority. A Trump defeat will be way better, trust me.

PS. @alt13 sorry, reading my post did sound overly harsh towards you. not my intention.

And one thing I hope the racist fringe of white America realizes after the election is that they don't even make up the majority view of white people. I sincerely hope that like me most white people don't want to live in a racist world.

#****trump

 

[Jamezz]

I've noticed that people are very aggresive towards Trump. We must stay cool and not let ourselves get carried away.

In the end we're all curious about what he will actually accomplish during his presidency.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I've noticed that people are very aggresive towards Trump. We must stay cool and not let ourselves get carried away.
In the end we're all curious as to what he will actually accomplish during his presidency.

Not really.

 

[Gameface]

I've noticed that people are very aggresive towards Trump. We must stay cool and not let ourselves get carried away.

In the end we're all curious about what he will actually accomplish during his presidency.

He's not going to be the president.

If he does become the president every KKK member and every neo-Nazi will celebrate, because he is THEIR candidate. They love him. They support him like they've never supported any American Presidential candidate in the last 50 years. He's their guy. There is a lot of very good reasons why they like him. For those same reasons I hate him. I loathe him. He makes my stomach turn. I see a guy who acts like Mussolini and talks like a retarded Hitler.

If retarded Hitler is who you want, I won't judge you. But look at this jackass! Look at all the quotes fishonjazz has posted, the **** that this guy says. I want a president with some degree of dignity and class. Trump has ruled himself out for me because he has conducted himself in the most despicable way. I know street thugs that carry themselves better. I know ex-cons who are more careful about the things they say.

Trump is disgusting to me. Disgusting in a very real way. He makes me sick. He coddles hatred and fear. He sings to the lowest of our national character. He is THE UGLY AMERICAN. The smirking, belligerent, oblivious jerk, who shines a light on our faults and holds them up as our strengths and casts a shadow on our greatness.